Helm’s Deep 3 : the Explosive Crews

MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Secret Vaults of Angrenost Helm’s Deep 3 : the Explosive Crews

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  • #29335
    ddaines
    Participant

      I think it better to have ‘some’ than ‘none’, and I have no idea how a boycott would end – not to our advantage I would wager :|.

      I would be happy to lose the Mithril name as long as the sculptor remained ;) – I buy for the figures, not the brand, and I would be more than happy to buy figures already sculpted for MM under the Phaeton brand albeit they were titled different, i.e. Hobgoblin explosive crew rather than Uruk explosive crew etc. etc. I know what they remind me of ;):D.

      Light horsemen from the East would also be a welcome release from Phaeton ;).

      #29338
      Gildor
      MMP Elder

        Arthadan there are some points you are wrong with…
        Prince August owns a licence bought to Tolkien Enterprises (not Estate.. that’s your main mistake) about producing content derived from the licences Tolkien Enterprises (Saul Zentz, now Middle Earth Entreprise) holds…

        Mithril is using the SAME licence provider as Peter Jackson or Game Workshop do… the only difference is the “domain of activity” they have their licence for and this is for “collection figurines” and “RPG figurines”… NOT for wargaming which is exclusive to Game Workshop.

        the fact Chris decided to sculpt characters based upon the book is their own idea but has nothing to do with their licence, they are not forced to do so… and in the end, Chris is free to sculpt the way he wants (and I remind you that sometimes many collectors or purists are not happy with it….Hobbits… plate armor… Radagast without beard…. the examples are many…)

        Lars loves mithril and holds it dearly, the same way I hold my collection dearly but have no time nor more money than I’d want… to put in them. It’s a matter of priorities. and the priority at the moment is to make it so it is just enough profitable Not to “close” Mithril… not invest in them as it would dirrectly be a failur with all the other competitors around…

        Now I admit things could be better if Chris was still in Ireland and not in London, to coach up and motivate Lars a little more, but considering that lately, EVEN Chris has gone silent and quite “slow” at producing his own series of figurines, I assume there is something else we don’t know…. I just hope Chris is fine…

        #29342
        Arthadan
        Participant
          Gildor Inglorion wrote:
          Arthadan there are some points you are wrong with…
          Prince August owns a licence bought to Tolkien Enterprises (not Estate.. that’s your main mistake) about producing content derived from the licences Tolkien Enterprises (Saul Zentz, now Middle Earth Entreprise) holds….

          Master Elf, I didn’t say which copyright holders Mithril got the license from…

          Quote:
          Mithril is using the SAME licence provider as Peter Jackson or Game Workshop do… the only difference is the “domain of activity” they have their licence for and this is for “collection figurines” and “RPG figurines”… NOT for wargaming which is exclusive to Game Workshop.

          Then I got that right. I wonder why Mithril is not producing miniatures for the new LotR RPG which has beatiful and acurated character designs (better to stick to the old flawed MERP full-armours, I guess…).
          And now we have a new player, Knight Models, I’m curious to know how they fit in this mess. They seem to be aimed at collectors too.

          Quote:
          the fact Chris decided to sculpt characters based upon the book is their own idea but has nothing to do with their licence, they are not forced to do so… and in the end, Chris is free to sculpt the way he wants (and I remind you that sometimes many collectors or purists are not happy with it….Hobbits… plate armor… Radagast without beard…. the examples are many…)

          No need to remind me, Master Elf. I’m well aware of the “creative freedom” of some miniatures and that’s why I will never buy them.

          Quote:
          Lars loves mithril and holds it dearly, the same way I hold my collection dearly but have no time nor more money than I’d want… to put in them. It’s a matter of priorities. and the priority at the moment is to make it so it is just enough profitable Not to “close” Mithril… not invest in them as it would dirrectly be a failur with all the other competitors around…

          Which is exactly my point. If Mithril weren’t profitable enough, it would close. Then, somebody else with the resources and will to pay full attention to this line could get the copyright.

          Quote:
          Now I admit things could be better if Chris was still in Ireland and not in London, to coach up and motivate Lars a little more, but considering that lately, EVEN Chris has gone silent and quite “slow” at producing his own series of figurines, I assume there is something else we don’t know…. I just hope Chris is fine…

          I hope the Man is doing well, but this situation has been going on for years and even with the movie boost it’s not going to change.

          As I see things, Mithril goes on only thanks to you, The Gold Fellowship. But at the same time I often read complaints about how Mithril handles things, specially new releases. With the Man owning his own miniatures company I don’t understand your support.

          I can’t agree more with Master Artisan, I’d be happy to lose the brand and see all those already sculpted miniatures under the Phaeton name.

          #29344
          Turambar
          Participant
            ddaines wrote:
            . . . Light horsemen from the East would also be a welcome release from Phaeton ;).

            A B S O L U T E L Y ! and a diorama is already been finished for them since a long time . . . just to put them inside . . . painted of course.

            Well, I exactly know what Master Arthadan is talking about. And I feel a bit angry meanwhiling about mithril´s policy.
            A boycott- I remember similar things had been discussed here somewhere in 2009 or so- I don´t know if there could be a real boycott.
            There are simply too less figures to boycott on. As far as I am concerned I bought this year two figures. On 50% discount.

            Concerning the phaeton brand. There is also happening pretty less. It starts very promising indeed, but then it ends up boozing somewhere . . .

            #29345
            Gildor
            MMP Elder

              (about the mistake, it seems I got my reading wrong, it was not Arthadan but Mornedhel who mentionned Tolkien Estate… so mea culpa)

              the fact that mithril ceases to exist does not mean ANYbody else could get a licence to produce tolkien related stuff

              there are some STRONG requirements to apply as a licencee of the Tolkien licence, one of which is being into business for the “type ot things” you want to use the licence upon for quite some years. “newcomers” with a “project” and a lot of money CAN’T get a licence… like that… besides, the licence is an annual fee if I remember well, and does cost several thousands of euros to hold it + royalties for each figurine that you sell bearing a licenced name or symbol.

              From what I heard, it’s the income of some of the other enterprises owned by Lars that make it possible to keep the licence paid? Else Mithril all by itself could not afford it. there is also the question of not releasing too much figurines (either in quantities of a single one or in number of releases per year) in order to reduce their costs for the royalties they owe to MEE for each sale

              #29347
              shadyt
              Participant

                I support Mithril and would not support a boycott.
                I do wish that Mithril would produce more miniatures. I think that they could use a Kickstarter campaign to make money and sell more miniatures. Reaper has recently had 2 multi-million dollar Kickstarters.

                Regarding the license and the associated fees; Miniatures like the Old Chicken Woman and Swans do not require permission from a license or fees. They could just be produced and sold by prince August or Phaeton. Mithril should only be producing miniatures that require the license, otherwise they are just wasting the fee money.

                #29351
                Turambar
                Participant

                  EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!
                  And therfore people should overthink what they suggest on GF forum AND
                  what they are voting for VERY CAREFULLY !!!!!!!!!!!

                  #29352
                  ddaines
                  Participant
                    shadyt wrote:
                    I support Mithril and would not support a boycott.
                    I do wish that Mithril would produce more miniatures. I think that they could use a Kickstarter campaign to make money and sell more miniatures. Reaper has recently had 2 multi-million dollar Kickstarters.

                    Regarding the license and the associated fees; Miniatures like the Old Chicken Woman and Swans do not require permission from a license or fees. They could just be produced and sold by prince August or Phaeton. Mithril should only be producing miniatures that require the license, otherwise they are just wasting the fee money.

                    Actually, that is a very good point, hadn’t thought of it that way before :)

                    #29353
                    Tolwen
                    Participant
                      shadyt wrote:
                      I support Mithril and would not support a boycott.
                      Regarding the license and the associated fees; Miniatures like the Old Chicken Woman and Swans do not require permission from a license or fees. They could just be produced and sold by prince August or Phaeton. Mithril should only be producing miniatures that require the license, otherwise they are just wasting the fee money.

                      Sure, that’s a good point. But then again, the miniatures must then reflect what is described and suggested in the books even if it means discontinuing age-old Mithril habits. Otherwise the plate-armoured Elves or Númenóreans (to name just the most notorious example) don’t deserve the “Middle-earth” label more than the swans or the old chicken woman.

                      If it is done with your thought in mind (which I support), then it must be done right. Anything else is a waste of time.

                      My 2c
                      Tolwen

                      #29355
                      Thingol
                      Participant
                        ddaines wrote:
                        shadyt wrote:
                        I support Mithril and would not support a boycott.
                        I do wish that Mithril would produce more miniatures. I think that they could use a Kickstarter campaign to make money and sell more miniatures. Reaper has recently had 2 multi-million dollar Kickstarters.

                        Regarding the license and the associated fees; Miniatures like the Old Chicken Woman and Swans do not require permission from a license or fees. They could just be produced and sold by prince August or Phaeton. Mithril should only be producing miniatures that require the license, otherwise they are just wasting the fee money.

                        Actually, that is a very good point, hadn’t thought of it that way before :)

                        100% true master Troy…. indeed… this is the point of all things here… no boycott it all.. no chance… but I should say again… conversation about profitability of mithril project is completely futile… this is hobby for collectors not for mass production… for people who love CT work and for people who will buy his figures as long as he could work on them…. I will say nothing more about this theme except that I wish to Chris… luck, health, and many peaceful days ahead…

                        I going now in the Prancing Pony to order roast chicken with lots of fries and garnished steak of swan meat.. and few mugs of beer… !

                        #29357
                        Theobald
                        Participant

                          … thank you, Thingol, those could have been my words …

                          #29359
                          Barliman
                          Participant

                            I too agree with Master Dave and Master Shadyt. For the record, I don’t imagine a boycott would achieve anything – unless the couple of dozen of us are the only people who actually buy Mithrils (or maybe we are!). Also, if someone else ended up with the licence they’d fairly certainly have their own favourite designer(s) already, and the likely outcome is that we simply wouldn’t see any more LOTR/JRRT figures from The Man – unless deviously camouflaged under the PM brand name.

                            #29362
                            Gildor
                            MMP Elder

                              I used to be for a boycott but am not anymore… too many things to take into consideration.

                              as for figurines without the need of a licence… if a shield or a tabard uses a symbol from Tolkien universe it falls under the licence but even if it does not…… simply because of the blister card…. which depicts part of the map of Endor and thus the product is under licence, by the simple fact it has this blister card…

                              #31513
                              Gavin
                              Participant

                                If it were up to me, PA would have a range called something like “folk of the Northlands” selling CT sculpted “generic” fantasy miniatures for use with all RPGs and battle games. Just they’d be in 32mm scale and compatible with Mithril. This range would also included Orc, Elf and “Easterling” warriors. The Mithril brand would, as if by magic and through mysterious coincidence, sell a bunch of Middle-earth shields for Orcs, Elves and Easterling warriors.

                                I’d also fish out anything in production with plate armour or anything D+D-ish like that and replace them with something in mail. Flog the plate clad figures as Fantasy Armies. I am very fond of the distinctive Mithril look. I am fond of the romanticism, the flowing robes, the slender figures, the “dark ages” sensibility. They aren’t all perfect, but I have a deep and abiding love for many of them.

                                I’d like to see more, and I’d like to see some crucial “holes” filled in the range, such as Ranger of the North, Easterlings and Southron forces.

                                #31515
                                Barliman
                                Participant

                                  Agreed, on every count.

                                  #31516
                                  shadyt
                                  Participant

                                    Sounds great to me too! But don’t forget the “Southlands” dessert warriors.

                                    #31517
                                    Turambar
                                    Participant

                                      Agreed, on every count.

                                      #31518
                                      Milo
                                      Participant

                                        Filling holes always sounds great to hobbits !

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                                      MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Secret Vaults of Angrenost Helm’s Deep 3 : the Explosive Crews