Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology
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August 17, 2018 at 3:03 pm #37333
Quite right too.
I notice that there’s never any “official” response to suggestions or requests for ten-figure (well, “tennish-figure”) ranges. Do we have to suppose from this lsck of response or, apparently, interest that such ranges are now entirely defunct? I vaguely recall that there were some encouraging positive remarks towards the possibility of figure-range releases about a year ago, or is that my imagination? (I admit I’ve been drinking the scrumpy again…)
August 17, 2018 at 4:00 pm #37334Master Barliman I have been drinking scrumpy too, but we must have the same weard imagination…:lol:
The problem is that the GF aways decides every month for a figure out of the blue and it doesn’t fit the figure from the month before or after… So there will be no figure-range…..
What our Master Ent is talking about, I only can agree regarding the pics. The figures look like plastic crap and through that printing the details like bows, swords and all of this nitty gritty becomes square! I havent bought one MZ so far and I think there isn’t one looking right eighter. A real shame!
Please go back to ordinary sculpting! I think thats in the price included they charge for a figure, because I haven’t seen the MZ getting cheaper in comparison to the MS!August 17, 2018 at 4:50 pm #37335Good point re price. Also, I haven’t seen other miniature manufacturers flocking to change to MZ-style figure “printing”.
August 17, 2018 at 5:44 pm #37336Thank you both, gentlemen, your comments are very much appreciated as I thought before that I had become crazy (without scrumpy) judging about this development within the last … er … two years ?
… and yes, of course I forgot to mention that “problem” about the price for each figure (did I ?).
For those who still remember: Just compare the old relation of the price for a single M-release to that of an MS/MZ realease (which also has risen time after time) in days long ago. – I am aware of the fact that prices went up worldwide for everything year after year, as we all are. But for these exclusive new MZ-figures I tend to expect a golden priming.
Sorry, it’s me, the angry tree.August 17, 2018 at 7:38 pm #37337Love the angry tree!:lol::lol::lol:
But the truth must be spoken!August 20, 2018 at 7:19 am #37338Is The Man still able to sculpt by hand? Chris is no longer young (as I and many of us)
Time Investment in digital sculpting is huge ( I am on the learning process of ZBrush) and if Chris choose this path it’s for good reasons other than pricing.
However When I compare to other digital figs produced with this tool, Mithril is now far behind (Balrog picture)August 20, 2018 at 7:42 am #37339I seem to recall that adopting this “printing” process was as a result of pressure from some of us collectors, rather than a personal desire to change. Big mistake.
August 20, 2018 at 10:16 am #37340Very impressive! The baby has pointy teeth!
Well, I didn’t think with this programm you are only able to print square things….. like bows and swords….:lol::lol:August 20, 2018 at 6:54 pm #37341Theobald wrote:I cannot understand why there still are no pictures of real figures provided. I think those “sceenshots” (or what is it they take instead of photos?) do not reveil what you receive when you’ve ordered a figure. Since the start of that MZ-series I am still very much annoyed about that matter. Maybe there is no time (interest?) to assemble and prime those releases at the company to take a photograph.
Er, sorry, that I am among those who regard this “development” very critically as I have become more and more disappointed.it’s called a render. zbrush in fact offers many great options to optimize said render, even if it’s monochromatic. lighting and so-called materials (information that tells the program how to deal with light and shadow) play an important role in setting up an appropriate render suitable for presentation or display.
here’s just one quick video as an example, skip to 02:20 and have a look if you’re inclined:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPy4xjDeXbYanother one in color, but also informative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHXiv0iAfgzbrush itself is an amazing tool and i have decided a while ago that i will invest in a tablet with pen to start working with it. the possibilities are too many to mention, but i daresay mastercaster would be among those who’d benefit the most from it—no more need for sawing, gluing, modifying several minis. you just go ahead and sculpt one in zbrush and have it either printed or cast.
a common misconception is that you don’t need sculpting knowledge or a profound understanding of anatomy to use zbrush—the opposite is true: the program is one of the industry standards for a reason, but to really get the most out of it, you must know your sculpting basics, that’s independent of medium.
the poor preview images are more likely based on either an insufficient handling/knowledge of zbrush, or time constraints and thus just quick and dirty renders.
given this information, i have to say the execution in zbrush by whoever it is, is bad, indeed. workflow could be so much easier, control over sculpting is so much more complete, but the minis now really show how lacking they are, particularly when i compare them with other current sculptors and companies.
just some quick points from me on the matter.
August 20, 2018 at 11:14 pm #37343Thank you, Master Cameosis, for providing information about that MZ-sculpting process.
I did not criticize that sculpting tool at all (though until now I really didn’t know how it really works – by the by, I would never criticisze anything I don’t know) – I just had the impression that the pics of the new MZ-figures do not reveil the figures you receive after you bought them. So you called them just a bad choice of the rendering process. That’s what I wanted to say. Alright, sorry that I called it “screenshots” in my comment. I am aware of how to use different sources of light together within that tool. A basic tool if you sculpt that way, because a strong lamp at your desk doesn’t help much.
But I’m afraid that there, so far, is no option in the MZ-programmes for “Mithril-grey-priming” to use and finish the print according to achieve an acceptable photograph of the —-> real, assembled and primed figure”<- - -
But I see, Master Cameosis, that you seem to share some part of my opinion … thanks for that, indeed …Alas, … you all are right … I’m just a little bit too old-fashioned with my
August 21, 2018 at 12:20 am #37344Master Mornedhel, I’m sorry not having answered here in the correct order. – Sorry.
I’m not sure if you got me wrong here with my comments.First of all I did never criticize Chris’ abilities in sculpting excellent figures. !!!!!!!
I had some of the thoughts you mentioned myself from time to time. – About age that is, of course.
No, please read more carefully that my complaints or criticism is simply based on the way and lack of “strategy” of the PA-Mithril company.
The image you chose, Mornedhel, is very interesting and just proves that resin-castings can top “old” hand-crafted metal castings in many ways. – Chris also once chose resin to have a larger figure being produced for some Dwarf-slayer in the gone project “Phaeton Design”. All his vignettes of the “Teutoburger Wald” series, once provided by Jim Corless by “Timemachine” were resin-castings as for all those amazing details.
Yes, Mithril is now far behind other companies you said, Mornedhel. And I’m afraid you’re right.
August 21, 2018 at 2:20 pm #37345Reading these posts from the last few days is a bit of a bummer. Considering I “got back into” collecting Mithril figures two years ago right around when this change over began. I still feel the figures are “Mithril” enough that they don’t necessarily clash with everything that has come before. However, after reading some of your post, such as esteemed Master Caster, I now notice the differences where I did not before. Not having certain characters look the same (ex. Galadriel) or be the same size is disappointing but the biggest is the primer. I always associated the Mithril line with the “Mithril grey” look. I truly hope we are not seeing the end coming but there seems to be so few of us left. It may be the end of an era. It just seems like a few tweaks are all that are needed to bring this line back to prominence. I still have the utmost respect and admiration for Chris Tubb as his vision of Middle-earth will always be what I see along with the other greats Alan Lee, John Howe and Ted Nasmith. They brought Tolkien’s world alive in ways I will always cherish.
I will also cherish the contact I have established with so many here and your most generous help and kindness. Now I think I need to head over the The Pony and order a stiff drought of ale!!
August 21, 2018 at 2:31 pm #37347Indeed you do! Don’t give up on Mithril – too many people already have. As you say, it needs oinly a few tweaks to get back on course. What worries me is whether there’s sufficient enthusiasm at Mithril to introduce those tweaks. The company’s reluctance to pay any attention to our comments and issue some new figures – ‘M’ ranges in particular – is the prime problem. Less product will lead (has led) to less interest, and that’s a downward spiral that can only lead to oblivion.
August 21, 2018 at 9:36 pm #37350Theobald wrote:Thank you, Master Cameosis, for providing information about that MZ-sculpting process.
I did not criticize that sculpting tool at all (though until now I really didn’t know how it really works – by the by, I would never criticisze anything I don’t know) – I just had the impression that the pics of the new MZ-figures do not reveil the figures you receive after you bought them. So you called them just a bad choice of the rendering process. That’s what I wanted to say. Alright, sorry that I called it “screenshots” in my comment. I am aware of how to use different sources of light together within that tool. A basic tool if you sculpt that way, because a strong lamp at your desk doesn’t help much.
But I’m afraid that there, so far, is no option in the MZ-programmes for “Mithril-grey-priming” to use and finish the print according to achieve an acceptable photograph of the —-> real, assembled and primed figure”<- - -
But I see, Master Cameosis, that you seem to share some part of my opinion … thanks for that, indeed …Alas, … you all are right … I’m just a little bit too old-fashioned with my
no need to apologize for anything at all, my friend—especially not to me, i just read up on the program a few years ago, that’s all. i absolutely share your opinion about the mz figures: posting such a render alone makes sense if you present a digital file or product, but here we have cast figures, so a real photograph is of paramount importance.
i just had a friend over at my place last weekend, and we photographed two thirds of my miniatures collection, including nearly all of mithril. he brought along his equipment, a nikon d3 and two flashes, set everything up and connected it to his laptop and off we went … meaning, shooting good product pictures is a matter of seconds if you prepare it correctly. we made some 1,000 pics in 8 hours, including breaks.
i haven’t followed the discussion on the shift in company policy or the looming demise of the mithril subdivision, but it’s not unexpected to me. presentation, product line, everything just show a lack of interest in the (admittedly small — but very committed) customer base and their interests and preferences.
August 21, 2018 at 10:59 pm #37354thanks to all for answering to my last entries their way … they all helped me a lot … though the reactions and answers do not grant me a good night … alas
… what I have learned is that a tree sometimes needs an excellent Troll lawyer( who are rare) who is capable to judge upon some serious matters …
Master Cameosis, I am delighted to feel someone sharing my thoughts that well.August 23, 2018 at 9:00 am #37355I received last 2 new releases.
Both are in 1 piece and look really nice to me. Il will try to provide pics once back Home.August 23, 2018 at 1:39 pm #37356A lot of thoughts and information…..
I like this!
Master cameosis, I don’t know if it is wise to tell a “woodworm” you only need a programm like zbrush to create a new figure without cutting a old one into bits. I’m more like the Ent… old-fashioned re computer. I don’t know if I could handle that programm and I guess its a bit to expensive to buy one just to realise mate you are to old-fashioned to use it! :lol::lol:August 23, 2018 at 2:40 pm #37358I’m with you, Master Holger – old-fashioned and computerally (is that a word?) incompetent. So long as the people who need to know can improve the quality of the Mithril technique, that’s all I want. I’m sure that the designs will improve with experience. At the moment there’s much room for improvement, starting with eliminating all these square angles that have become too frequent for my tastes. The wonderful flow of Chris’ designs have been horribly compromised by the new process. For me, Mithril figures have dropped from an overall score of 10/10 to an average of, say, 6/10 to 7/10. That’s still prety good by most figures designers’ standards, but why accept compromise when perfection is available?
August 25, 2018 at 1:41 pm #37359Barliman wrote:I’m with you, Master Holger – old-fashioned and computerally (is that a word?) incompetent. So long as the people who need to know can improve the quality of the Mithril technique, that’s all I want. I’m sure that the designs will improve with experience. At the moment there’s much room for improvement, starting with eliminating all these square angles that have become too frequent for my tastes. The wonderful flow of Chris’ designs have been horribly compromised by the new process. For me, Mithril figures have dropped from an overall score of 10/10 to an average of, say, 6/10 to 7/10. That’s still prety good by most figures designers’ standards, but why accept compromise when perfection is available?Master Barliman you speek out of my heard!:cool:
September 20, 2018 at 10:34 am #37402To put it simply, I do not like MZ series at all.
Scale is weird, they are somewhat deformed to an angle, and some parts have strange shapes. Higher price lower quality, no more miniatures I have bought…
Other companies do marvels at this very same scale WITH PRINTED masters, just check Corvus Belli or Knight models. Is this fact what hurts me more mithril seems to have failed checking what other companies achieve. Meanwhile GW has relaunched their range of LOTR armies with EXCELLENT casts and even their price is better than Mithril’s.
I really would hire Cris and have him sculpt by hand and cast his miniatures on the facilities provided by the companies above and see what happens.
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MMP › Mithril in Middle-Earth › The Prancing Pony › Mithril and the Fellowships Chronology