Phaeton Miniatures

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  • #22426
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

      I think they may be related to Rolemaster? which is the original RPG campagin from ICE aside from MERP.

      Some CH references (and Friends & Foes ) do belong to a Celtic RPG called Legendes Celtiques from Descartes (they do exist in a boxed set) … all in all, the inspiration is from regular Fantasy RPG or from Celtic inspirations.

      Half-orcs have long been a race of playable characters for Advanced Dungeon&Dragons advanced rulesets too, and thief is a common class archetype in RPG game :)

      #22428
      Theobald
      Participant

        Thank you very much, Gildor. This helped me a lot. (You see, once you start something new to collect you should know what it is about. Though, to be honest, sometimes I really don’t know why I’m collecting this or that … alas.) :)

        #22439
        Thingol
        Participant

          This could be one of the half orc thief specialized unit trained to dig into the cold winter nights in the Saruman’s larder… :P

          #22444
          Gildor
          MMP Elder

            it could also be inspired by the half-orc spy seen to be chatting with Bill Ferny in Bree?

            #22482
            Gavin
            Participant

              Why this sounds like something I may hold forth on!

              Whoo-hooo!

              The original Prince August fantasy miniatures are, in essence, designed to be played with a little known game called Dungeons and Dragons (look on the Prince August site. Look at the cast figures. Look at the characters. See those dice? yeah.) Not just D&D, mind you, but also Tunnels and Trolls, the Fantasy Trip and some other thing I can’t remember this very moment. Oh, and Runequest.

              Around this time, another little game was appearing, or in genesis. That game was Rolemaster. Rolemaster started life as a “patch” for Dungeons and Dragons. The idea was to turn D&D’s fight scenes into something more interesting. This led to other rules, which led to “in depth character creation” which led to… well, eventually a simple version of Rolemaster called MERP. This may explain why MERP has so many oddities that are not-quite-Middle-earth. The other reason is, of course, that the original few MERP releases appeared before we got to see many of the histories of Middle-earth books.

              Oh, also amusingly, the old fantasy armies figures were “perfect” to play with a then little known game called Warhammer.*

              heh.

              Anyway, the entire CH range of figures can be expressed in terms of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Second Edition. Fighter-thieves, Half-orc thieves et-cet-er-a. They can also, with a bit of squinting be expressed with Rolemaster Second Edition too. Kinda.

              The general “look” and “feel” of the CH series screamed Dungeons and Dragons: the “elf magic user” for example is, to me, the ultimate expression of elf-player characters in the 1980s – casting a magic missile with one hand and ready to stab with the other.

              I have used the various CH figures playing Dungeons and Dragons, which amused me. You can imagine most of the CH figures poking around The World of Greyhawk stabbing orcs.

              The new PCH figures, on the other hand, certainly reflect a somewhat more sombre vision of the universe. In a way, I see the PCHs as conversions from AD+D to MERP, or high fantasy land to Middle-earth.

              That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

              * Interestingly, while trying to find a full list of Tom Meier miniatures, I came across a history of Iron Wind Metals, the successor to Ral Partha. The history explores the rather complex, incestuous and somewhat informal sets of agreements and business practices between TSR (Dungeons and Dragons), Games Workshop (White Dwarf), Citadel Miniatures (eventually, Warhammer), Ral Partha, Grenadier and so forth. By luck or design, Prince August remained a little apart from this world, but did sufficiently well to make a mark. (And The Man worked for Grenadier for a time). Ever wonder why a lot of old GW minis look like they belong to some other universe? Well that’s because they all started out as something else. Elric figures, D&D figures, licensed Ral Partha figures.

              All of which brings home to me that the whole kit and kaboodle of “old school” minis gaming is really… people playing some hacked version of Chainmail and/or D&D.

              #22487
              twrich
              Participant

                As a D&D player for the past 25 years, and Rolemaster/MERP player and GM for over 20 years, I can confirm what Gavin says (although he knows much more about the other RPG games and figures than I do). Several of my old D&D figures were the old CH miniatures, and I still have many of them (painted, stripped, repainted, repeat . . . ) in my wooden box that holds my dice. ;-)

                #22489
                Thingol
                Participant

                  Excellent expertise of true masters !!!! :)

                  #22491
                  Theobald
                  Participant

                    Thank you very much for those detailed explanations.

                    #22495
                    erchamion
                    Participant

                      Really, you know much about this……….¡Thanks! :)

                      #22499
                      elroi
                      Participant

                        As a long time role-player and miniaturist, it´s for me a real pleasure to read such kind of information

                        Thanks a lot!

                        #22504
                        Gavin
                        Participant

                          Heh, thanks.

                          There’s even a special thanks to Games Workshop in one of the Prince August handbooks, and a recommendation to use Warhammer to play with Fantasy Armies.

                          Far off, more innocent times.

                          #22505
                          Milo
                          Participant

                            Innocent times…Yes I remember quite well my first years in RPG were like that.
                            Also Games Workshop used to sell MERP also, back in 1986:
                            [imgz url=http://mmp.faerylands.eu/uploads/553_drmg112-p108.jpg]http://mmp.faerylands.eu/uploads/thumbs/553_drmg112-p108.jpg[/imgz]

                            This is last page from Dragon Magazine n°112, 1986

                            #22506
                            Gavin
                            Participant

                              Yep
                              Games Workshop licensed most of the big American RPGs in the UK, so there were GW editions of Runequest, MERP and a bunch of other things. Hell, Taurefanto, the most amazing MERP add-on was published in White Dwarf.

                              GW’s refusal to acknowledge this is mildly reminiscent of Soviet Russia airbrushing disgraced Communist Party thinkers from official photographs :D

                              #22509
                              imisel
                              Participant

                                I love this drawing… Agnus McBride make some of the most amazing front pages for MERP books

                                #22513
                                jdbrown55
                                Participant

                                  Awesome! My avatar picture is the other rider from that picture!

                                  #22576
                                  Gildor
                                  MMP Elder

                                    i got information about phaeton distribution… it has some delays due to the holidays but everything should have shipped today or tomorrow…

                                    the releases for the end of January are ALREADY ready for shipping and should be advertised in due time (I don’t have a clue on what they are though)…. I’m amazed at the Man’s efficiency!

                                    #22579
                                    Theobald
                                    Participant

                                      He didn’t pass on a word about the new January-releases to me either. We’ll know in time, I’m sure.

                                      #22580
                                      Milo
                                      Participant

                                        Same message received…let’s wait and see

                                        #22583
                                        Turambar
                                        Participant

                                          . . .let´s wait and see . . .
                                          Only one sentence: The Man is magnificent !!!!

                                          #22584
                                          Thingol
                                          Participant
                                            Turambar wrote:
                                            Only one sentence: The Man is magnificent !!!!

                                            Agree… :)

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