some news…

Viewing 20 posts - 61 through 80 (of 248 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #18031
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

      I think tacit autoshipment should indeed be considered preorder, but these online functionnalities will be a lot smoother to manager for Michael (and maybe me…) when the new website comes online…

      Only MX so far has required explicit confirmation from persons inside the autoshipment to be included in the plan , for each MX release.

      Autoshipment exists for MS only or for MS + M regulars too… As it can easily be guessed, I have been inside this program since its launch, (as Theobald I presume)

      I have submitted other ideas to Chris… which should eventually be accepted

      Chris suggested that in order for Helm’s Deep 2 and 3 to be released FIRST among this new plan… it’s easy… Mithril will simply add these ranges inside the first poll. So that Mithril can see people REALLY want this and vote for it… IF people don’t want it (which would really seem odd) they still have the opportunity to suggest something else and vote for it… but I think Helm’s Deep 2, then 3 will be the first suggestions to be voted for

      another thing : I suggested Chris to submit Lars the idea of a Mithril Price Chart, to be revised only every year, or if not possible every 6 months so that customers can plan their mithril budget in advance and also they KNOW what they are suggesting/voting for, and what it will cost if it wins

      this chart would be some sort of matrix, an array with “type of figurines” (single, mounted, double, vignette, big boxet set) as opposed to the amount of preorder reached (low to none preorder = MS price), average preorder, good preorder, excellent preorder (cheapest price)

      this would give, at least an array of 20 fixed prices for a given amount of time which helps a lot to plan budget…. most of all when it comes to “deluxe expensive hobby products” such as Mithril…

      and I keep feeding Chris with ideas :)

      (now 6 mais with Chris in less than 24 hours, quite surprising!)

      #18036
      Theobald
      Participant

        Well, alright. But to me all these calculations are too complicated. I cannot comment on that as I’m neither a merchant nor skilled in production process. So, I just can say that I will feel fine with any agreement that will enable a new M-range.
        As for the new website … well, I just witnessed that adverts being placed on the old one by now are not only German adverts… that’s interesting.

        #18039
        Thingol
        Participant
          Gildor Inglorion wrote:
          I think it is better to put the words directly than synthetize myself so here are Chris words

          Chris Tubb wrote:
          I agree that pricing and discount are crucial issues. It is, of course , inevitable that the price will be higher than the regular M series – if the M series is currently not viable because of economic reasons then it would hardly be credible to put out this series at M prices. On the positive side though, we do have the fact that members can put the range together themselves to some extent and that they should get some discount if they buy more.[…]
          I would like you to stress that this is an effort to do what the members have been asking for on Lars’ part and the only commercially viable way to get them an M release and not just an attempt to extort as much money as possible from them.
          I was also thinking about a scale of prices. What I mean is that if we can achieve x amount of pre-orders the figures would cost a certain amount of money, whereas if we achieved 2x pre-orders then the price per figure would be , say only 2/3 of this amount. We , maybe should announce all these prices before starting.

          Chris would like to hear feedback as he wants this project submitted, approved and put into motion by the end of NEXT week (I have never received so many “detailed” mails from Chris in such a short time, so I really think things are moving at great pace here)

          Please post your comments as fast as possible here, and I will relay them to Chris altogether by Sunday

          My opinion is that this pre order discount makes no sense. Why if I pre order something and they give me 20% discount, if I pre-order something twice, they give me another 15% discount… so if price for one figure could be 15 Euros – 35% for 2 pre-orders of one or two or three sets of figures… than is more than logical that cost for producing one figure is much lower than which is directly published price oh web shop… so why we could not have possibilities to order figures and wait until they made it. This could be called pre-order but there is no sense that this is reason for discounts. Simply we could wait until they is poured into a mold and packs in a package. Let it lasts 2-3 weeks. Two weeks ago I ordered equipment for the saloon, columns, beds, small wagons, barrels and sacks in 28 mm range. After I paid they wrote me an e-mail in which they wrote: “Thank you for your payment. ordered we will send you as soon poured into a mold and pack up”. I got a package at the price published on the website. I waited 20 days. I do not see why not, and Mithril it could also work. There should be no vouchers, no reservations and no advance orders. For them it is enough to have our credit card and they already have it and that’s it. A price can be quite normal. Proof of that is the action of last week where they gave 20% discount on everything, including the latest MS figures. So what is in this case break even point in their costs. I’m sure that all those prices are too inflated. The truth is, I’ll buy this figure because I like them very much ( especially the work of Chris Tubb ) s but I think that this strain exceeded all bounds. It would be best to decide what they want. Or they hire a quality manager for finance to calculate the actual costs, the optimal difference in price and to insert those results in the marketing strategy. Anyway, in their efforts to be better positioned on the market can not invent anything new but what is known in marketing theory…

          #18040
          Thingol
          Participant
            Gildor Inglorion wrote:
            besides, I just received another mail from Chris (three in less than 24 hours! wow! )

            Chris Tubb wrote:
            If the majority of the Fellowship want the Helm’s deep stuff to be released first, I think we should acceed to their wishes. Tell the members that if the majority want Helm’s deep then that’s what we will release

            (I must add : within the new preo-order flexible price system)

            Yes we want Helms deep 2 & 3 and Ents on Helms deep what could be HD4 and many things… so please make us happy !

            #18042
            Thingol
            Participant

              …. and for ending… my monthly salary is around 1200 Euros… for sure lowest of all on this forum. Unless if there are no students. I understand the economics and finance and I think that all these stories are meaningless. In order to afford this hobby I have to work more, but I’m not complaining. I still live in poor and economically insignificant Croatia. All I want is to fell respect for our love for this hobby and I want that should not listen any more stories about high costs of production. For such a small little things. That can be cast to order. And absolutely do not need to stockpile, which later can not sell.

              Have a good night to all… I’m going to into a taproom to washed away the dust from my dry throat … ;)

              #18045
              Gildor
              MMP Elder

                the reason for pre order strategy is to have a guarantee of sales….
                and knowing how many figurines need to be casted.

                Casting 100 figurines cost less than casting 10… that’s a fact. If you understand costs of productions you certainly understand that in addition to the cost production you have the cost made to cover the unsold products somehow. I don’t know about the casting techniques used at mithril as opposed to other brands of quality figurines. so I could not tell you more about that.

                having vouchers if YOU preorder a figurine is not the idea and it would not work on an individual basis. the price could only be reduced of let’s say 100 people preorder, or 300 people preorder… preorder one or ten won’t change the price, changing it will require, I suppose, ‘steps’ of at least 50 by 50 preorders… as we are talking about mass casting and not punctual casting which Mithril has and will never do, they are not equipped for that I suppose

                I myself can’t imagine having a set of 10 figurines costing 20€ each, neither can Chris… that would be ridiculous. Still I can imagine having a set of 10 figurines (per year) costing 10 or 11€ each if enough preorder, maybe less if you preorder the whole set…

                all those current promotional sales are made to sell all their stocks at a loss, but selling at a loss is better than not selling at all all their stocks!

                I have to say I share the idea that this way is the only way for Mithril to release anything outside the Gold Fellowship… Mithril is a collector range and they can’t and won’t keep moulds eternally in order to cast figurines when someone orders it… moulds have a lifetime. If not enough of a given figurine are cast when it can be cast, then the figurine won’t be available again anymore and this will generate artificial M16 such as Halbarad for example…

                In order to avoid this problem, they need to know how many must be cast in the “first batch” (which MAY be the first and ONLY batch to ever be casted)

                I’m sorry to see you are disapointed about this as this was Chris idea and mine in the first place and Mithril (Lars and Michael) had nothing to do with this project yet, except accepting this one as viable somehow as opposed to all other attempts or propositions made in the past… Mithril has decided to ONLY produce things now that would not generate any loss of money (I am not speaking about benefits at all , from what I heard, they have ceased to make any benefits out of Mithril for something like 7 years… and can currently barely pay their 5 or 6 employees with the sole income of the Gold Fellowship)

                Still I will relay your thoughts too, but I need more feedback from the others as soon as possible now…

                #18046
                Thingol
                Participant

                  I’m not disappointed dear friend Master Gildor… I’m happy and I hope that after this brainstorming our love to this small little things will ultimately win…. all of this suggestions are good ideas… Sometimes I think we all cringe too much themselves…

                  About prices… as you wrote above 10 or 11 of maybe 13 Euros for one figure is enough money…. fine price ! 20 Euros for single MS figure is also fine price… etc. How manny figures Mithril cast in MS releases. All 100 or 150 in first batch or less. So what is the difference in this case. If they could do in few days 150 figures of one serial number… I do not see what is difference between casting 20 figures in first batch, 25 figures one week later… 10 figures for a 2 weeks 5 figures next month, and finally when one association of RPG players decide to buy 100 figures…. they do this 100 figures (without stockpiling)… If they brake mold ( like in M16 or Halbarad ) they also have 2 possibilities. To do another one or to make figure extremely rare on make us COLLECTORS even more interested. This is the essence of the struggle for the collection. It’s Picasso works 100 copy of your images ? Not he did not…. Finally, whether or not the company have paid the person to make the molds…. :)

                  #18048
                  Gildor
                  MMP Elder

                    I confess I am not omniscient and I don’t know how they proceed

                    ALL I asked is a guarantee that NEVER will a M release have a price ABOVE a MS of the same kind and actually the preorder thing should allow for dramatically reduced price… but the time when M regulars were costing 7€ can’t be reached again I think whatever is done we won’t see them below 10€but the prices are not made yet and Chris is fully aware that fixing those prices is a very touchy and crucial point in the project…

                    Mithril , in the last years has only done ONE batch of casting for everything and not casted them anymore afterwards… for god knows why… Assuming this as a fact they don’t want to change, there were two solutions :
                    fixing a low price and waiting for enough preorders to be made to launch casting and production but this can take years.. and well, if people who pre ordered grow impatient and tired they can remove their preorder and that won’t help
                    fixing release dates and conditionnal prices indexed on how many preorders will have been made at the decided time of preorder time limit. This may be more expensive at first but it also assures one thing: fluent releases… also considering that having new figurines on the market generates catalogue, and figurines themselves are a money… (trading purposes, ebay sales etc)

                    This system is not meant to remain as is for YEARS but at least for a year or two in order for Mithril to get back into business… Then things can come back to normal if the project has some success…

                    The main problem of Mithril for years , according to many professionnals I discussed with is not mainly the price…. the main problem is the lack of releases… prices are secondary and can also be changed afterwards….

                    Some numbers : MS Gold Fellowship have a price indexed on the number of releases already…. and this number is not indexed on preorders but on the GF members
                    so I can assume that for 200 members (which could be converted to 200 preorders) we know the price….MS price

                    #18049
                    Thingol
                    Participant

                      All ot this words are true, but the real answer we need to know is: the way that they produce every figure… and this is it… after this answer we would have “clear picture” about this entire problem….

                      Thanks for all Gildor :) :) :) without you I guess all those stories long ago would have been completed…. finished… forgotten

                      #18050
                      Gildor
                      MMP Elder

                        One thing I am sure about… Casting 100 figurines in a row will definitly cost less to produce than casting 50 +50…. Master Holger can certainly explain this far better than me (when he has some time :) )

                        #18057
                        Barliman
                        Participant

                          Having just ploughed through all of the above, I can only say that I almost don’t care what is agreed or which range comes first, so long as we see SOMETHING soon.

                          The price is another issue, though there’s no escaping the fact that metal prices have risen through the ceiling over the past year or more, and on those grounds alone we can’t expect new figures to be the sort of prices they used to be. If the prices for ‘M’ figures get anywhere near what GF figures cost, however, then I for one just wouldn’t be able to afford them. I can just about afford to buy several multiples of the HD1 figures (I use my figures principally for wargaming, remember), but any higher than that would be just too much. I’d buy one only, for my collection, but that would probably be it.

                          As for the first releases, then the HD 2 and 3 sets are the obvious leading contenders – isn’t our constant whining about these sufficient to demonstrate that we’re itching to get our hands on them?

                          And what of the Easterlings. You say, Master Gildor, that you don’t believe they’ve been designed? Hmmm. That doesn’t tally with what The Man told me a long time ago – that he’d about completed them (or even finished them) but was in dispute with the factory regarding how they should be manufactured (they wanted them to be rider-and-horse single-piece castings, whereas he insisted that the horses and riders should be separate, and wouldn’t let them be released until that could be guaranteed).

                          But when all is said and done, I’m a cynic at heart, and despite all of Master Gildor’s best efforts, I’m inclined in the ernd to agree with Master Archer: there’s always a vast chasm between what Mithril say and what Mithril actually do. Ergo, I’m not going to hold my breath while I wait to see what happens next…

                          But thanks anyway for your arduous campaigning, Master Elf. Let’s hope something comes of it.

                          #18061
                          Milo
                          Participant

                            Because of your post Master Barliman, I’m thirsty again…that’s unfair ! :P

                            #18062
                            Barliman
                            Participant

                              I have to get more business somehow.

                              #18067
                              Thingol
                              Participant
                                Gildor Inglorion wrote:
                                One thing I am sure about… Casting 100 figurines in a row will definitly cost less to produce than casting 50 +50…. Master Holger can certainly explain this far better than me (when he has some time :) )

                                But Master Holger is not here from a long time ago…. :(:/😎

                                #18068
                                Gildor
                                MMP Elder

                                  well, if master Holger can’t, I’ll ask directly master Tubb who knows how this is done at the factory and who is casting himself…

                                  I have to say here : when Barliman says : there’s always a vast chasm between what Mithril say and what Mithril actually do. Ergo, I’m not going to hold my breath while I wait to see what happens next…

                                  ALL of THIS project is CHRIS personal idea , discussed and with ameliorations from me, and the feedback of MMP… Though this project has been discussed and got the ear of mister Edman, we can’t here say that there is a difference between what Mithril say and what they do… Mithril did not say anything yet…

                                  Only Chris… and myself did…

                                  on mithril and Chris behalf… from HIS own experience he perfectly knows many people are ready to put a lot of money on mithril figurines… If people are ready and can afford the prices that can often be seen on ebay, then one can assume money would not be the first problem… rarity of a figurine is not only reserved for below M100 figurines…. It happens that at the moment, Every release (M or MS) since Helm’s Deep 1 are doomed/meant to ALL be rarities either now at their release, or in less than 2 years…

                                  See for yourself with MX figurines, or with some MS….

                                  I am not given the skill of foresight, but I can tell you… every M release from now on and until things get better if they ever do… will be as RARE in not in money, at least in quantity, as the M16, if not more…

                                  as said, i am fighting to have releases… I can’t fight to have price reductions at the same time….. there is low demand and we try to generate artificial offer… this means the price have to be expensive until the situation is reversed and we have more demand ….to fit a potential offer (having more demand than offer would generate another price increase but we are far from it)

                                  Please just keep in mind that all this project is Chris’ alone, it is not Lars idea… but it is the First time he agreed to “test” it…

                                  #18069
                                  shadyt
                                  Participant

                                    I am looking forward to HD2, we have seen the pictures and they look great. If I am to vote on HD3, I need to know what they are before I will vote on them. This is something that I have never been told.

                                    #18070
                                    Barliman
                                    Participant
                                      Gildor Inglorion wrote:
                                      ALL of THIS project is CHRIS personal idea , discussed and with ameliorations from me, and the feedback of MMP… Though this project has been discussed and got the ear of mister Edman, we can’t here say that there is a difference between what Mithril say and what they do… Mithril did not say anything yet…

                                      Semantics, Master Elf! Mithril will have to become involved at some point, if these are going to be Mithril figures, and then they’ll have to say something, officially or otherwise. That’s when we shall see how wide the chasm is. And that’s why I shan’t hold my breath just yet.

                                      As I said, I’m a cynic – it comes from leaning on too many bars listening to too many tall stories. Just call me a reactionary, dyed-in-the-wool pessimist – because that’s what I am.

                                      #18072
                                      Arthadan
                                      Participant

                                        I think is a matter of quality, good miniatures means good sales. Above all I am a Tolkien fan, so I’m equally inclined to buy any miniature from any brand if it’s nice, reasonably price and it fits my vision of Middle-earth. I can’t care less about if it is “official” or not.

                                        Now Mithril subsists thanks to the Fellowship, a dedicated group of Mr. Tubb enthusiasts. The M series are reasonably priced, Middle-earth has thousands of fans and with the internet if something is good it will be known even if it doesn’t have a wide marketing campaing (specially with the many forums that exist about miniatures).

                                        Now take the Angmar Trolls and compare them with the Mirkwood ones. The design of the last ones is lazy to say the least and that’s something no company can afford with all the competence there is now. I haven’t bought them and I will not in the future, no matter how cheap I can find them.

                                        So if the idea is to release more pricey sets than the M series in the same line of quality (and I mean design, not sculpting), I’m sorry but it doesn’t sound good to me. Mithril will survive as long as the Fellowship will support it, but it will attract no new customers and that’s not sustenable in the long term.

                                        Sorry for being so pesimistic, but every new miniature I have seen lately it has been a great disappointment for me. Having poorly results with so much potential clearly means something is not working.

                                        #18073
                                        Gildor
                                        MMP Elder

                                          indeed I could not see it any other way around
                                          but before HD3 they’ll have to release HD2 I think, one thing at a time

                                          but that also means HD3 would not see the daylight before 2012 and if people want to submit anything ELSE than Helm’s Deep 2 3 or 4 and still have Helm’s deep released firsthand… they’d have to wait until 2013 before having a chance anything submitted is produced…

                                          because the release format will be 5 in september then 5 by the end of december for a given range of 10 (well that’s what Chris planned for release dates for the first “winning suggestion”…

                                          I suppose that if it is Helm’s Deep it could be a bit before those dates before the masters already exist
                                          but they need to leave enough time for people to preorder to gather enough preorder before fixing a price… I know some are upset with this, but I have to remind them that in the first place I suggested Lars to make Small but several casting batches and he refused… saying he did not want mithril to keep moulds or stocks once something has been made it is made, end of line… so what other choices are there?

                                          #18074
                                          Gildor
                                          MMP Elder

                                            to sum up I think Mithril is trying to uphold the MX designer project for all the mithril range… the only question they ask themselves is “how many” of them will we cast?

                                            and then…. that’s over…

                                          Viewing 20 posts - 61 through 80 (of 248 total)
                                          • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.