The Taproom

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  • #9437
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

      I have indeed confirmation M520-529 an M541-550 are reserved for two upcoming ranges (helm’s deep related)

      Actually I sent my “GF chronology” to Michael who found it excellent and quite amazing. He will distribute it on twitter and other places so that people can check the GF details since its beginning.
      He will also update and correct his mistakes as to the releases chronology.

      I have no further info on any bonus info but indeed as Theobald and Barliman say, it would be better to have regular M …
      Not to mention that having TOO few regular M… necessarily increases the prices of those M… (they do not generate demand, still they offer batches intended for a regular release in a market with too low demand.. so the price must be higher to cover the fees of production… and income… vicious circle… once again) low demande generates careful offer and it is safer for mithril to release MS figurine than regular M… which lately are more or less commercial disasters… and do not generate enough income…

      #9439
      Gavin
      Participant

        …And the next Dwarf Warband auction is on Sunday 9pm British Summer Time.

        #9442
        Gildor
        MMP Elder

          … and this has been posted in the proper section too master Gavin :) (though I’d prefer this kind of info Not to appear on the prancing pony… as I have explained before, the pony is a public place for all those people who are members of the MMP but also for unregistered anonymous visitors. Everybody can see what is posted on the Pony… this is not the case for the marketplace… which is a “member-only restricted area”… Though I am willing to spread as many informations to serious collectors, members of our dear community, I am still afraid of “orcs” or other people who will retrieve this information without being a MMP registered member… in order to buy “batches” of this sale, to sell them back months later at 4 times their price… I suppose there is no need to mention who does that , almost all of us know whom I am talking about :)

          #9443
          Turambar
          Participant

            . . . yesss . . . 😎

            #9444
            jdbrown55
            Participant

              Wow! It has been a long time since I have been here.:/

              How is everyone? I see new faces here too.

              #9455
              Thingol
              Participant

                I agree with Gildor… those informations are to important for this unlocked topics… :/

                #9456
                Barliman
                Participant
                  Gildor Inglorion wrote:
                  Having TOO few regular M… necessarily increases the prices of those M… (they do not generate demand, still they offer batches intended for a regular release in a market with too low demand.. so the price must be higher to cover the fees of production… and income… vicious circle… once again) low demand generates careful offer and it is safer for mithril to release MS figurine than regular M… which lately are more or less commercial disasters… and do not generate enough income…

                  You do surprise me! “They do not generate demand”? It’s advertising, economical pricing, and desirability that increase demand. If the M range figures were priced at a more apealing level then they’d sell more. For instance, I’ve only bought two of each of the first “Helm’s Deep” release, but would have happily bought many more if they weren’t so damned expensive! And you won’t be able to convince me that each individual M figure doesn’t sell considerably better than an MS release.

                  If they are indeed “commercial disasters” that has more to do with incompetent marketing than desirability or demand.

                  #9457
                  Gildor
                  MMP Elder

                    well see my point master innkeeper.

                    Mithril produces batches for regular release. This has a cost… at the time being, Mithril has not enough income to offer itself a strong advertising campaign because we all know that advertising campaigns have never been a guarantee of success or result… It helps towards reaching a result but there is no guarantee…

                    In order to be SURE that the operation of a regular release is not a financial fiasco (ie : producing too much figurines, packaging, distribution… for too few sales –> loosing money) they have to increase the price to be sure that the “unsold” products do not affect the very tiny “financial equilibrium” because the difference is paid by the high price of the “few sold ones”… As I said it is a vicious circle… it could be otherwise

                    but with the GF , Mithril is assured to :
                    1) have regular identified customers
                    2) be able to foresee how big a batch has to be , considering the number of GF members
                    3) produce less numbers , without lot of “unsold stock”
                    4) practice high prices, based on the fact it is “collector/prestige” figurines…

                    I fear that GF, as cool as it may be, may drive mithril to be over precautious and prefer THIS system rather than regular sales because they know they can’t loose too much money this way….

                    indeed this is my thought… but over the months and years, it is no more a mystery that though Mithril/PA is not “that” bad concerning their financial status… it is not very positive… and there is no desire to invest in mass advertising/marketing because the risk would be too great for the cost…

                    I’d suggest one thing : make moulds, keep some of them safe and unused, make “smaller” batches, even for regular releases, and IF it sells well, then generate new batches instead of “stocking unsold figurines” which is what Mithril has done for years in order to “generate” some rarities.

                    when there are too many rarities in a range, the range itself tends to become a rarity… not only in terms of prestige and collection but in terms of market and public availability…

                    I know Chris has no word in this, only Lars has… and though Chris had some promotion ideas over the years, it is Lars who decides, sometimes against Chris ideas…
                    (I have examples of such refusals…) … It may be a coincidence but this has begun since Chris removed himself from mithril co-ownshership in the late 90’s… sometimes before the release of the LR range I think?

                    #9458
                    Gildor
                    MMP Elder

                      as an example of such “failures”…. Mumak…. first release of mithril to be casted in a limited number of 1000…. years ago

                      Mithril still has them on their catalog if I remember well, that means that this was a total failure…
                      (no comment on the aspect of the mumak ;) … )

                      #9459
                      Barliman
                      Participant

                        Yes, the problem with the Mumak is a very simple one – it doesn’t look very convincing! I’m sure even Chris would agree that it wasn’t his finest hour. It also doesn’t much resemble the mumak described by JRRT. I’m afraid I never bought one…

                        #9460
                        Arthadan
                        Participant
                          Gildor Inglorion wrote:
                          well see my point master innkeeper.
                          when there are too many rarities in a range, the range itself tends to become a rarity… not only in terms of prestige and collection but in terms of market and public availability…

                          I can’t agree more with you, Master Gildor. It’s not reasonable that Mithril does not offer unlimited ranges of most common races and character (for Eru’s sake, how many mounted Rohirrim do they have in their regular (no GF) catalogue?).

                          Tolkien fans want a nice bunch of Mordor Orcs (discontinued), some riders of Rohan (two discontinued series) and famous characters (but not 1000000 versions of the very same character such Gandalf on foot ad infinitum).

                          What I personally miss is a consistent classic series with more common troop types currently OOP (I want an Angmar Army!). Things like generic Orcs and then Orcish shields blister (such Gondor provincial shields blister) would be most appreciated for sure.

                          #9461
                          Gavin
                          Participant

                            I think Gildor has the right of it.

                            I mention mithril all the time, any time its relevant.

                            Someone asks: are there any other Tolkien ranges out there?
                            Mithril
                            Something to play RPGs with?
                            Mithril

                            etc

                            The first response is usually: hey, I thought they went out of business years ago.

                            And I send them the website and they say “huh, cool” and promptly forget about it.

                            Having a website, twitter feed et al, is a good thing. But that cannot be the entirety of your advertising campaign. Today I am (finally) going to write a Mithril review for RPG.net. Maybe it will generate some interest.

                            and yes, Mister Arthadan, I too want a nice Angmar army boxed set.

                            #9462
                            Barliman
                            Participant

                              Don’t we all. If wishes were horses etc…

                              #9464
                              shadyt
                              Participant

                                I also skipped buying the Mumak, because the creature looked happy and the “wartower” was a cozy basket for two.

                                #9467
                                Gildor
                                MMP Elder

                                  On the other hand… now I clearly see another problem I had totally forgotten..

                                  Being myself lucky enough to have a complete collection of all Mithril released products, when i see people supporting the ideas for orcs, (mounted or not) trolls or even personnalities seen many times in the range, I tend to forget that OLD mithril references are no more available except through “second hand” offers on ebay or other ways… but not “unlimited”… And there are people who began collecting or simply buying mithril on a thematic basis (for armies or rpg) who do not have all the old references…

                                  I can see now how someone who has only access to regular, currently available mithril may want to have “once again” orcs, trolls, etc… but when you objectively look at the full range since M1, and when you have all of them.. you can also be exasperated to see repetitions over repetitions… because when, for example, it comes to orcs… and that you have ALL orcs since M1, including the unreleased warbands…. you feel as if you were in Mordor already, surrounded by hundreds of orcs….

                                  that’s a point of view I had not taken into account but the problem then, rather than release still new references of already existing ones, would be to FINALLY create new Mithril Classics of old figurines that DO exist and that people would like… (for example, orc riders, only one exists in MC, the other one should also be in the MC range)

                                  this way would be satisfying for both the casual buyer and the collector who has them already and prefers “exclusive” new content over “repetitive” content…

                                  to answer your remark Gavin, you are right, websites are cool, but when it comes to merchandise, people are like St.Thomas, as “first-time buyer” they wanna see concrete…. Ebusiness and Esaling is good for “regular” customers, not for new ones

                                  when I want a new washing machine, a new flat TV… I MAY order online on e-stores but FIRST I go to physical shops to have an idea of the product “by myself” beforehand…

                                  that’s why eBusiness is great for those who are already mithril customers… and those last years prove that it works perfectly for Mithril… for regular customers… But not at all for newcomers… no matter how strong is your dedication to “verbally” or “virtually” promote their products…

                                  Chris knows about that…. and volunteered to go to “meetings” like the Salute Event, in different European country like France. but the politics at Mithril/Prince August said otherwise and thought it to be “too expansive” to run such events… and so Lars did not accept Chris proposition…
                                  Such behavior contributes to Mithril lack/diminution of “generated demand”…

                                  Now unless there’s a millionaire out there willing to take part in mithril ownership, provided there are parts of the society to be bought from Lars Edman, and who would take my considerations (and also Theobald considerations, and Chris considerations) into account, I fear nothing will change…

                                  At a time I thought Mithril lacked ideas and wanted our help and our suggestions to solve the problem. I think both Theobald and myself sent loads of suggestions to him… which were discarded or overlooked without being even taken seriously into consideration…

                                  One of the only BIG project that was used as promotion was the Unexpected Party vignette which, sorry to say, except from being a masterpiece, masterwork and a GREAT thing, did not reach outside the “community of mithril regular customers”… I would have thought about other kinds of promotions OUTSIDE the “mithril sphere of influence”… but where has there been any promotion for this great scene outside of Mithril communication networks (including twitter and facebook maybe but for whose members are once again members of the community)

                                  there was no mention of the MX535 release on Prince August France at all (their site) and not a single retailer in France was aware of this event :)

                                  Last time I saw a REAL promotion campaign from Mithril, it was for Salute Event 2007 (the Salute Event 2008 with the Orc Rider did not have the focus on Mithril like 2007 had) and before that, the Witch-King figurine realised for Lord of The Rings Online Collector Edition. THESE were promotional campaigns

                                  I know I may feel upset, but with all the promotional work I do for Mithril and all the suggestions I submit, I think I can… i dedicated this entire website originally as a HUGE promotion for Mithril… That’s my contribution to the community, as I don’t have money and could not do any other things like MX alas :(
                                  …and though I know “they” all like it (and Chris has found very good ways to let me know he was very grateful for this work…) they still discard all the ideas I suggest them… which does not surprise me a lot considering they discard ideas submitted by C.Tubb himself at times (thankfully they did not discard his idea about the new primer! thanks Eru! )

                                  #9468
                                  Gildor
                                  MMP Elder

                                    (damn …. I had no idea this post would be so long…. well usually you can get an idea on how much the elf that I am is upset… when you look at the length of my posts lol

                                    #9469
                                    shadyt
                                    Participant

                                      I agree with Arthadan above about the orcs and armies in general. There should be enough different miniatures available at any given time to build the army that you want. Waiting five years between orc releases has probably driven many potential army builders to other companies. They could sell shield packs using existing shields without having to get permission from TE. I would buy several right now.

                                      #9470
                                      Gavin
                                      Participant

                                        Gildor:

                                        Yes.

                                        #9471
                                        Barliman
                                        Participant

                                          As usual, Master Gildor, you make a lot of very good points. As I said only a few posts ago, I never did understand the deletion of earlier ranges of Mithril figures.

                                          #9473
                                          shadyt
                                          Participant

                                            Armored trolls have been rare for decades. The Classic armored troll is available. The two armored Angmar trolls are very hard to find even on ebay. The MX armored troll has always been rare. The other trolls that are available are the three small trolls from the Battle of Mirkwood but they have no armor. The three trolls from the hobbit of course have no armor, even the MS troll drummer has no armor. So your choices in armored trolls are limited to one. That is why I have been trying to get another armored troll on the GF. I do not htink that it is likely that a regular M series armored troll will be made in the next few years.

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