furniture range discussion

MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Secret Vaults of Angrenost furniture range discussion

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  • #543
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    it may be a good idea and one of my MAIN suggestions to help promote mithril, or Prince August if not released under mithril name….

    Michael opened a thread on the official board and I posted many ideas, please go there and give your ideas… I think it could be a great improvment and it seems even Lars considers the idea interesting!

    #13495
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    it may be a good idea and one of my MAIN suggestions to help promote mithril, or Prince August if not released under mithril name….

    Michael opened a thread on the official board and I posted many ideas, please go there and give your ideas… I think it could be a great improvment and it seems even Lars considers the idea interesting!

    #13497
    Theobald
    Participant

    good news … as I said, I’ll take part in that. And … maybe … I might have more to offer.

    #13563
    Arthadan
    Participant

    I think furniture is not a good option since Mithril is pricey and there are a lot of companies producing medieval furniture for lower prices. Here one of the main reasons which makes Mithril sells (official Middle-earth stuff) would be lost (‘oficial Rivendell chair… who cares?). Besides, such range would be directed only to people making scenes, but would be of no use for wargamers, role-players and people who buy Middle-earth personalities.

    #13565
    Theobald
    Participant

    I’m not a wargamer nor role-player, I’m just a collector. I think it’s always nice to arrange a collection of figures by adding some details, such as furniture. I think that for example the accessoire-set of the Prancing Pony series is great. So it’s much nicer to present the figures of that series with additional material. When you have a further look at some other details Master Tubb sculpted you might guess what I mean. The books and the globe of that Gandalf & Saruman vignette, the pieces of the Barrow-tomb-vignette , etc.
    As for the price I would like to say that I do prefer material that meets the figures and not adding some of that resin-stuff. Though this solution might be a bit more expensive.

    #13566
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    Mithril is pricey because they don’t sell well and because they have to pay a licence for their products…

    Furniture does not require licence mostly, and could help boost up mithril sales by adding a new line of products that is exclusive and tolkien related…

    now, indeed master Arthadan if you have any suggestions to improve mithril beside the design points you submitted recently you are free to give any…
    Still a topic was open some time ago for everybody to post suggestions to b sent and compiled for Lars and Chris… the suggestions have been made…

    forgive me if I took it personnaly to warn Michael, Chris and Lars that in order to gain more market parts AT THE MOMENT, the wargaming aspect of Mithril should be taken aside completly for a time… because Mithril can’t win on this terrain while GW has all the market and Mithril is almost dying by lack of sales, Mithril has to sell Lines of products that have NO concurents… thus, as much as I like armies too, consider releasing things unrelated in any way to wargame….

    I think… this idea was shared and still is, by many

    While many other companies release furniture material, the scale, and art design may not always match Mithril own design… and may look odd in the end…

    You may know by now that, given a choice, I prefer mithril continuity of design rather than switching the the “new age” you are trying to put forth :) that’s your right and opinion, that’s mine… In the end, since it is all about design… only Chris will choose and we’ll be fixed…

    #13567
    Arthadan
    Participant

    I’m only saying that there is a lot of competence in that field out there (I could name six companys without even searching!). It’s true that Mr. Tubb gives a nice design touch, but I think there is less potential market for furniture than for characters.

    Quote:
    Furniture does not require licence mostly, and could help boost up mithril sales by adding a new line of products that is exclusive and tolkien related…

    That’s an interesting point. So, are we speaking about a generic cheaper-than-Mithril line? A resurrection of the Prince August fantasy line perhaps? Furniture does not require license, same as a Dwarf warrior or an Elven archer. Prince August could make a ‘generic’ Mithril-compatible line and reserve Mithril for characters. That way:

    – They could produce wargaming miniatures.
    – They could have less production costs (if they pay for each released miniature) and faster releases (no need for aproval).
    – We would have fully compatible miniatures (by the same sculptor and company).

    For example, Prince August could produce a line of generic Rangers (with light armour, bows and so) and then Mithril release the Grey Company in chainmail, with the star-shaped brooch and characters such Halbarad (with Arwen’s standard unfolded!) and mounted versions of Elladan and Elrohir.

    They could even have minatures with separate shields and then Mithril would produce separate Middle-earth ones. For example a range of generic ‘Northmen’ with plain separate shields by Prince August and then a pack of Rohirrim shields by Mithril. This would be restricted to basic troop types.

    What do you think?

    #13568
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    this would work master Arthadan… if Prince August benefits were injected into Mithril Business…

    this is not the case… Prince August makes money.. Mithril does not…

    same company… not same budget… Why? Because I was clearly said in explicit words : “stop your boycot or we close Mithril in two months because Mithril can’t survive a MS boycot”…. PA will, but not Mithril… still employees and chairman are the same…” see the problem?
    MS releases are the only income of Mithril…and at the moment, no benefits are generated…

    Unless proven otherwise, I am tryting to promote Mithril (trademark) as opposed to Prince August…. IF helping PA could help Mithril , I would gladly do so too…

    Prince August is a name that is still known all over France because they are leaders in paints, and brushes, and some diorama building material… PA does not suffer a lack of notoriety… Mithril does… and it’s THIS that I want to solve…

    I was gladly advised that financial and economical status of PA or mithril was none of my business and these won’t be discussed between mithril and me… that’s fair, as I am no employee… still, Mithril is on his own there, it has to generate its own benefits…..

    now the problem is not economical, financial, or technical….. It is political… And we are “walking on eggs”… If I insist too much on these points with Lars/Michael

    #13569
    Arthadan
    Participant

    I didn’t know such a difference existed, it’s a difficult situation indeed. Then I’m afraid my only suggestion are the ones I’ve already made: update the style (it’s what people look at first, specially in Fantasy miniatures) and improve the accuracy to Tolkien. as dramatic as it sounds, I think Mithril has to renew and reinvent itself or will die slowly.

    #13570
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    … we’ll wait for Chris words…. if he says anything

    still, I doubt this is the only option, or else I would not have been able to write 4 pages of suggestions for Mithril survival without even taking into consideration any change of style :)

    #13572
    Arthadan
    Participant

    A matter of point of view, Master Elf. As I see things, it’s the only way.

    Why did Mithril lose ground over the years? The end of MERP was a reason, of course, but I don’t think people stopped loving Tolkien’s book suddenly. I guess shops stopped making orders to Mithril and the only possible reason I can think of is because they didn’t sell well. As price are now, Mithril is expensive but there are many others marks of generic fantasy doing well which are even more expensive. So, following this line of thinking, I guess the style didn’t adapted to the ‘new age’ as you call it. Of course, I can be wrong but that’s how I see it in the bigger picture.

    I let you here some links to some of the expensive generic fantasy companies I have spoken of (all in 28-30mm), in case you want to compare. Link 1, Link 2, Link 3, Link 4, Link 5, Link 6. You’ll see all of them have a ‘new age’ style (in fact the 80’s is called now ‘old school’).

    #13573
    Theobald
    Participant

    Hmmm … a nice collection of weird figures, in resin I think. If that’s a “new age style” … well. So let it be. I use to frequent a fair once a year in Essen, Germany. There are lots of companies promoting their latest products. Yes, GW always is taking part there and it’s not the smallest stall at that market. – Well, all those exaggerated concepts of figures just leave me with a smile – though I always am impressed by the presentation of many companies. Especially about the paint-jobs.
    So you might also add “Fenryll” to your list, Master Arthadan. I painted many of those years ago, as a lack of Mithrils had to be coped with.
    Anyway, all these creatures do not touch my mind at all. But, of course, that’s just my personal point of view.

    #13574
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    I know Andrea… I even paint and collect some of their Warlord Saga in 54mm (you may have seen my paintings on other threads actually)

    still if Mithril would change a LOT of their design… they could loose their soul… and many people could be interested in the product MAYBE, but MAYBE a lot of old school collectors, us, who have been supporting mithril for years, may cease to be interested in their products

    you may or may not know but there are many people here who collect mithril ONLY because of “Chris’ style”… Maybe some other people could intervene in this debate..

    I love Andrea, don’t take me wrong, but in 54mm, all of the brands you quoted, in 32mm… lack the “realism” I find in Mithril, and if Mithril was to loose this “realism”… I would be very sad and maybe give up collecting…

    I saw a positive thing in your post though! I just discovered the last release of Andrea (Zorabeth) and I think I will buy it!
    I am still waiting to receive Daramis actually hehe

    #13575
    Milo
    Participant

    Well, I shall say I agree and disagree with Arthadan.
    The reason why I buy and work on mithril is because it is realistic, simple, unlike GW and other brands which over exagerates clothes, faces, weapons to make it more spectacular.
    It is because the clothes are smooth, faces well proportionned that I love it (even if there is a lack of expression, it is up to the painter to bring some life to it).
    CT elves are the ones I was waiting for since I read the book in 1981.
    It is also because mithril respects the most J.R.R. books that I kept it.
    Compared to first Citadel, or current GW releases, the amount of mistakes is not that important (what is the real amount towards more than 600 references ?).
    The mistakes you highlight, I agree with, don’t misunderstand my words.
    And I agree it is far better to follow the author and avoid customers desapointment.

    Your concern about sizes (elves, humans, hobbits, dwarves,…). well, my opinion is half good and half different. I think sizing is very good for small ones and a bit lazy for tallers.

    I am an old fan, not aware what is to be done for a better future of mithril. There I think your point of view is very constructive and pertinent.

    #13576
    Arthadan
    Participant
    Theobald wrote:
    Hmmm … a nice collection of weird figures, in resin I think.

    No, Master Tree. They’re all in nice shiny metal. But they usually give some imprimation to the bare metal for the photos, so the details can be better apreciated.

    Quote:
    So you might also add “Fenryll” to your list, Master Arthadan.

    I was speaking about elaborated expensive companies. I know Fenryll, but I consider it “average” in quality and price.

    Quote:
    Anyway, all these creatures do not touch my mind at all. But, of course, that’s just my personal point of view.

    About them being “weird”, they’re generic fantasy so they follow the mainstream. I was refering only to the detail. Anyway Thunderbolt Mountain is even more realistic than Mithril. Anatomy, movement, textures and folds are just perfect.

    And is just a matter of picking the right ones… I own this ranger and is an awesome miniature, and I’m after some red Box Elves like this.

    Gildor Inglorion wrote:
    still if Mithril would change a LOT of their design… they could loose their soul… and many people could be interested in the product MAYBE, but MAYBE a lot of old school collectors, us, who have been supporting mithril for years, may cease to be interested in their products

    But we’re speaking about updating, not changing. Adding textures when needed, add more expresion to faces… The essence would be the same we love, but in a nicer box so to speak.

    #13579
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    about fur, I agree 200%, about faces, I am sceptical about what could be achieved by sculpting compared to what can be achieved by painting….

    I saw paintings of mithril faces that were quite impressive…. and the bare figurine without any paint did not bear any expression details… but I am no sculptor indeed

    #13580
    Arthadan
    Participant

    I agree a skilled painter can achieve wonders on a flat surface, but detail helps greatly to the average painter to achieve a decent result (that’s why I insist!).

    For example this plain plastic toys painted average here and painted by a better painter here. There is quite a difference in the faces (not that I like any, but the second looks more detailed than the first) and that’s an extra brush work which wouldn’t be needed if the detail was sculpted.

    #13586
    Milo
    Participant

    That is true though I never thought that one less brush work is a good reason to choose a mini. :P
    I understand your point of view.

    #13587
    Arthadan
    Participant

    It’s a matter of how skilled you are. Simulate volumes or textures on a flat surface and make it look real needs a pretty advanced technic and it’s time-consuming (and beyond my skill, I must confess!).

    #13588
    Theobald
    Participant

    So by now we know what you think is quality, Master Arthadan. So you might keep it that way.
    I’ll keep away from this discussion, as it doesn’t really meet my interest. The more references you provide does not mean that your idea about sculpting and commercializing figures might prove to be efficient. Anyway. When I said “a collection of weird figures” I meant that. As for your interpretation of “mainstream” … well … I surely will not follow that. *Rodger* and over.

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MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Secret Vaults of Angrenost furniture range discussion

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