If you desperatly need one reference…

MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Marketplace of Tharbad If you desperatly need one reference…

Viewing 19 posts - 21 through 39 (of 39 total)
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  • #9977
    Theobald
    Participant

      I have the M16 in its original casting which I bought some years ago from Chris Tubb directly in an auction on Ebay. So, why weigh her? I also have some so-called ‘Master figures’ of the Gondorian warband (B1 mounted officer/horse’s left foot up and the B4) I bought from Mithril directly. So … weigh them?
      Okidoke, Master Kenakko, I could provide such a data about the “less than 100”, but I would have to weigh the figures before, right? … but what with?
      As for you, Master Gildor, I think it’s not necessary to have provide that weight data, I could do it … though it might take some time, as time is limited for me.
      Alas, the additional 3rd table of the MX-UP might weigh 2 grams, for example. I never thought about these matters before as I use to buy Mithrils from companies or people I know. And that’s why I can be sure that they’re originals.
      Of course, I also started collecting casted “conversions” (just to fill the lack of non-released M-series figures). But also with these I can feel free because I do know exactly who gave them to me … and that wasn’t only one person.
      Anyway … keep your heads up … I definitely am not an expert in casting and do not know anything about the weight of lead …. so, that’s said.
      rhuoommm

      #9983
      Gildor
      MMP Elder

        besides there are also those “masters” (I have two of them M110 and I don’t know which one… i have the certificates signed by Lars and Chris somewhere…
        those “masters” do not weigh the same than retail version… though being genuine, they are “masters” and thus cast in a totally different harder and heavier alloy…

        #9984
        Thingol
        Participant

          what a discussion…. maybe we must ask Chris, Michael or somebody in factory which are involved in miniatures production since 1988 if there are somewhere hidden one weight specification of all figures. I think this discussion is pointless. After all what I’ve read here I was going to take measure and weight my figures with my wife’s kitchen libra…. what a job… I’m sure that this is not important… I’m looking on my shelf now with suspicion :(

          #9987
          Kenakko
          Participant

            Well, one needn’t weigh every Mithril, just the ones that command big bucks, say M16 and a hand full of others. Those are the only ones any might attempt to go to all the trouble of recasting for a healthy profit. Every recast I’ve ever come across has been recast by a person of outstanding character (and skill) whom would never sell a recast as an original. Some have even been marked to show that they are recasts. Once long ago, however, there were rumors about recast M16’s being made and sold (in Europe). Most eBay transactions have some kind of return policy or buyer protection. So how does the buyer beware? Many of us are sitting here with our rare figures already. Some members here and future collectors are not. Personally, I would never pay the huge sums required these days to complete a collection. Others may not feel this way. Maybe they’d be just has happy to have a recast, but priced accordingly. This site is a resource for collectors. It just might be nice to have a place to turn to if you were contemplating or had put up big money for a figure. I doubt PA would be of any help (not so sure they even have an M16 in the place!). And I think the man needn’t be bothered and might not have the interest. Just thoughts about the monetary welfare of others…

            #9988
            Kenakko
            Participant

              One more thing just to illustrate my above (pointless?) points:
              [imgz url=http://mmp.faerylands.eu/uploads/21_m16s.jpg]http://mmp.faerylands.eu/uploads/thumbs/21_m16s.jpg[/imgz]
              One is genuine, one is a recast. Which one would you be happy to pay vast mounds of Fijian shell money for? Point is, recasts do exist! It is weight that distinguishes. I like Presto’s mathematical averaging approach (though my own ‘maths’ are very poor and I have misplaced the data on my M16’s weight:/:/). If there is interest, I’ll dig this beauty out of storage and weigh it again….

              #9989
              Theobald
              Participant

                :/ the original one is on the left … one can tell without weighing the ladies.
                But I think you’re right. This discussion really is pointless. Just imagine buying a Mithril-figure on Ebay … you do not have the chance to weigh it and you’ll have to trust the seller’s description of the item.
                Anyway, if there’s interest of having the weight of rare figures I can help. Just contact me.

                #9990
                hsf62
                Participant

                  Yes Master Ent, could you please provide the weight for M66.
                  That would help, because that’s the mini which started this discussion.
                  Thank you my friend. ;)

                  #9992
                  Gildor
                  MMP Elder

                    besides the sword being attached to the base I can’t see how you can distinguish which M16 is the genuine one master ent?

                    #9995
                    Theobald
                    Participant

                      That’s easy, Master Gildor, as you guessed well. It’s about how the sword is attached to the base. Though if you have a closer look at the sword provided with the lady on the right, you can see that the point of the sword is not pointed at all … and that also comes close to the original casting …
                      But, to be honest, I justed guessed and feel that I’m right with that. See, it’s a 50% chance. 😆

                      #9998
                      Gildor
                      MMP Elder

                        well when looking at it i made abstraction of the sword… (because well, you know that many m16 have lost their sword… but that does not mean they are not genuine without it..

                        thus, apart from the sword, looking at the figurine.. it is very hard to see a lack of details in the recast.. it is a very well done one…

                        #10006
                        hsf62
                        Participant

                          I would have guessed the left girl as the original too, but only because of the darker undercoat.

                          Is there anybody out there with a letter scale and a M66 on hand who would be able to weigh this figure and post the weight in here???
                          Pleaaaassssseee!

                          #10007
                          Theobald
                          Participant

                            Alas, I forgot about this, Master Hsf62 … sorry … so, M66 is “Galion, the butler”, right? – Though the problem is not having a letter scale at my place. It’s Sunday and shops are closed where I live … besides, as I do live in a more “rural” area, I don’t know where to buy a letter scale.
                            But I’ll try to find out. First I have that M66-figure on my desk (and I#m sure it’s an original one) – then I know some physicians I might meet tomorrow … rhuoommm they must have a precise scale for such things, at least that’s what I hope. So I’ll try to sort it out.

                            #10013
                            twrich
                            Participant

                              Wow! Great discussion about recasts.

                              I do not collect Mithrils to try and make a profit on reselling them, but it is a good thing that some people do so that others can build their collections and keep our hobby growing. But most people don’t want to pay for something that isn’t original. And they don’t want to pay crazy prices even if a figure is original either.

                              I have a few recast in my collection that I know about, but have managed to find originals to replace them. I was very happy to get those recasts and am appreciative of the person who provided them to me, and they are of excellent quality. But during several later conversations with Chris he expressed his concerns about recasts, and after thinking about it myself I completely agree with him. Even if recasts are made as a favor to friends, eventually they could end up in the market place and cause problems for him and Mithril . . . the recasts would dilute the brand and cause him to eventually lose customers, who need to be sure they are collecting original pieces.

                              So there are two issues: 1) outright thievery by dishonest people; and 2) people with good intentions who eventually might cause problems because of their actions.

                              Chris has told me (and others, I suspect) that he’d address the issues of recasts and outright piracy–people who knowingly sell fakes of his works, and not just Mithrils. Still, he seems to me to be someone who doesn’t like conflict, and I know he really cares about his clients. In some ways, perhaps it is easier for him to avoid the conversation. Still, a recast of his work that is given to a friend can easily be passed to another friend, or to a relative who is not a collector, and might eventually become a “fake” on eBay, and that is concerning. So far he hasn’t made a public statement that I know of addressing these concerns.

                              As for those who create conversions, I don’t believe that bothers him at all. In my opinion, any customer who has an origianal figure can do what they want to it, even to convert and then sell it if they are honest about the conversion. It is the selling of recasts (pirated figures, Chris calls them) that makes him angry, and especially if the seller misrepresents the figure as original, or came across it thinking it was original and then sells it, not having the inclination or knowledge to tell if it is real.

                              Regarding listing the weight of each figure, it think it would be a good idea, but only if Mithril can assure us that the weight (composition of metals) of the original figures were consistant throughout its individual production. PA/Mithril and all figure companies change ingredients from time to time (primer, anyone?). So unless we have that info, this data might not be so useful.

                              Finally . . . to the issue of whether dritz is selling fakes: I doubt he is intentionally; many years ago I purchased a few figures from him and they were excellent. And once (even though he really didn’t even know me) he offered to give up one of his several purchases of an old MW Half Orc auction from Chris because of confusion over the difference between time zones, and if I remember right, he was going to let me have it for the price Chris set as buy it now. Thankfully Chris had an extra and I bought from him instead. I still don’t really know dritz, but I think that this is more of a business for him than a passion (and he sells a lot of other stuff besides Mithrils), and that he might not recognize a recast if he came across it, especially if it was of a high quality like the ones I was given. So again, I think this validates what Chris is concerned about when it comes to recasts.

                              #10016
                              hsf62
                              Participant

                                Hmm, that is correct, the good intention can become a very painful experience.:(

                                #10017
                                twrich
                                Participant

                                  Respect to you, Holger.

                                  #10030
                                  presto247365
                                  Participant

                                    My m66 galion weighs in at 18g. It has the grey undercoat and typical engraving on bottom, but was purchases loose out of the blister.

                                    #10031
                                    presto247365
                                    Participant

                                      Coincidently, my m39 in the same condition as the m66 weighs in at 20g.

                                      #10039
                                      Nob
                                      Participant

                                        I am not an expert in chemistry and metallurgy… but due to the fact the figurines are made of metal alloys… among which certains are subject to alteration through time (some kind of light oxydation), well if I remember correctly my chemistry courses, oxydated metals sometimes weigh less than unoxydated ones. (it’s the case for Iron)

                                        Well, couldn’t time alter the weight of the figurine? I don’t know about bismuth and antimony but I know lead is subject to alteration…. not to mention lead rott… I think tin is not subject to this kind of oxydation but tin instead of lead is only in the “5 star metal” that did not exist back in 1989…

                                        and especially for figurines below M100 which had more lead and less other metals

                                        #10042
                                        hsf62
                                        Participant

                                          Nob, we won’t go there. I haven’t seen one Mithril with lead rott, but 100’s of GW’s. Mithril’s do not oxidate and they don’t rott.
                                          They only rock!!!:lol:

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                                        MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Marketplace of Tharbad If you desperatly need one reference…