Mithril and Zoetrop Catalogue

MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Secret Vaults of Angrenost Mithril and Zoetrop Catalogue

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  • #653
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    Master Barliman could you get me a drink?

    I just read the last newsletter…. I’m so glad about Zoetrop and yourself’s work master ent… but well, indeed… a great praise from mithril to both of you, it is deserved….

    but about THIS database, about MMP, about this SITE…. N O T H I NG is every mentionned by mithril ever…. in newslestter in their private mails, in their way to behave with me (they just said they were sorry they forgot about me and will send me the figs this week…) I am after all… but one customer among others :)

    and now Zoetrop provides his catalogue with full mtirhil entries since creation as if it has never been done before……

    I’m glad to hear my work is SOOOO appreciated by Mithril company…

    #21201
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    Master Barliman could you get me a drink?

    I just read the last newsletter…. I’m so glad about Zoetrop and yourself’s work master ent… but well, indeed… a great praise from mithril to both of you, it is deserved….

    but about THIS database, about MMP, about this SITE…. N O T H I NG is every mentionned by mithril ever…. in newslestter in their private mails, in their way to behave with me (they just said they were sorry they forgot about me and will send me the figs this week…) I am after all… but one customer among others :)

    and now Zoetrop provides his catalogue with full mtirhil entries since creation as if it has never been done before……

    I’m glad to hear my work is SOOOO appreciated by Mithril company…

    #21202
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    sorry if I feel a bit disapointed, it is not at all by you all gentlemen but by Mithril company and how they treat my commitment…. as always…

    #21203
    Barliman
    Participant

    Well I’m sure that everything you’re both complaining about is entirely true, but for myself, I’ve happily never had any problems with them beyond a degree of tardiness in despatching orders. So I suspect there’s no intentional victimisation – it’s just pot luck if your order happens to hit them on one of their bad days or not – and so far I’ve been lucky. But it certainly isn’t the way they should treat ANY of their customers.

    So rest your buns here (as we say in Bree) and have one of my virtually best pints (if you see what I mean) until you feel better. I’ll even put one of those little umbrellas in it.

    #21204
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    problem is barliman, I do not place any order that’s what worries me

    i have to remind them that I am on autoshipment…. I am worried that if I do not remind them EACH time, they will simply “zap out” they need to send me anything!!! I buy them everything they produce, sometimes I even buy side products and they manage to keep their customers disapointed, (not to mention MMP indeed, lol)

    #21205
    Barliman
    Participant

    Maybe the moral is not to rely on their autoshipment system. So cancel your standing order arrangement and instead order each time new figures become available.

    #21206
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    and disavow my 10% reduction? oO …. with the prices Mithril is practicing, I assure you 10% is quite a sum… but this is another problem…

    no my main grief here is that I feel that Michael, on behalf of Mithril, on his newsletter, acts as if Zoetrop catalogue was a premiere in terms of cataloguing and referencing all the mithril range…. I feel and keep feeling disavowed by mithril and that really makes me sad… not angry… but deeply sad…

    they promote it only because Zoetrop wanted to have it released on the official board… that’s good but they did not deserve the work he has done for them… I for once did not even receive any price update from Zoetrop for quite a while and my database is now quite obsolete with the average prices… Maybe Zoetrop has other things on his mind :)

    I still can’t understand why they accepted his contribution and are “politically” but categorically refusing mine….

    #21207
    Turambar
    Participant

    Mithril surely not. This is right, but we-as collectors and passionate fans- deserves this catalogue.
    And I suppose honourable Master Zoetrop intends exactly this.

    And you hold this discussion explicit in this open place . . . ?

    #21208
    Thingol
    Participant

    I think this topic is not for this place….

    Also, I think it would be good if the Michaet publish catalogue on the website. Why not. I have printed version, but many of us do not have it.

    This could be only positive step in promoting. It can not be bad. We know already that Mithril staff is unable to do such work. They are technicians, workers, tradesfolk, who do their job in a factory. That, for all of us should already be clear.

    Your love to the Mithril hobby and CT work, there is not present… Gildor…

    #21209
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    So, you considered this topic out of place so I just moved it…

    I perfectly agree that the publication of this catalogue is great and must happen so that everybody can have it. Now I have NO guarantee that this catalogue will be “printer friendly”… if it is an online-only catalogue it won’t have any more interest than mmp database I fear.

    my problem is neither with Zoetrop nor with any of you ladies and gentlemen … it is with mthril company. There is nothing on MMP that is made legitimate by Mithril, like a “we at mithril, approve Mithril Faerylands!” (like a USA presidential campaign lol)

    this Catalogue will be made sacrosanct and legitimate by mithril company… and no matter what, no matter if there are 83 members on mmp (among which less than 30 are regulars), we’ll remain in shadow.

    If this can help promote Mithril I’ll close my eyes on this… but last attempt to promote mithril by our dear Theobald (the Unexpected Party) did not prove to be a major promotion in the end… and I fear that this time, Zoetrop attempt may not generate a lot either…

    I would gladly have hosted this catalogue actually from the start I was aware of this project and proposed Herbert to host it but he declined kindly and wanted it on the official board… I agreed it would touch and affect more people but the thing I did not want is generate competition between Zoetrop catalogue and my site they do not have the same final utility

    still Mithril aknowledge HIS work… and never mine… as a matter of fact, they plan to develop their own database of figurines in the new site and do it all from scratch and don’t want to use my work….

    #21210
    Turambar
    Participant

    Ha ha , this is the point:
    “. . . I did not want is generate competition between Zoetrop catalogue and my site . . . “.

    But that isn´t the point, Master Gildor.
    Zoetrop´s catalogue NEVER EVER was meant to be in competition to anything. It is simply “his work” !
    Publishing the catalogue – wherever in this case- is just for the reason to bring it to us customers.
    And I like this idea very much. And I supported Zoetrop the way it is possible for me doing so!
    And it should be possible for EVERYBODY to publish whatever he wants if mithril/Lars/The Man/whoever “allows” that.

    I can understand your “anger” about the way mithril-company treats you, very much, but Zoetrop´s catalogue is not the right place for compensation . . .

    Gildor, isn´t it enough that you gain our and The Man´s respect for your entire and toilsome work?! Why do you need the absolution by the company . . .

    #21211
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    I have nothing against the catalogue as I think this is a great thing!

    I suppose you are right turambar about the respect of the man and no doubt I am grateful of your respect… but you see, I too want to promote mithril… too, and even though the Man appreciate my efforts, or that you appreciate them too, this is all in shadows… never publicly, never officially

    When I suggested the idea of a suggestion style new rebirth of the M range with low productions to Lars and Chris… when the project finally appeared, “marketing-ly” modified by Lars… did I get any credit for the original idea? Indeed I have, from the Man, from you…. but all my efforts remain in the dark and not approved by the company… who could at least consider me a bit more than a mere customer sometimes…

    I have no team to work with or for me with the work I do for Mithril… as I don’t know how I could manage a team on this so I voluntarily do all updates by myself… and I’m perfectly aware this pleasesthe MMP community and I’m happy with that… I just wish I could be taken seriously by Lars…

    well, i’ll turn away on other projects, if Mithril company does not want my help, but Chris does… Eventually I’ll end up building a complete web site for him and phaeton-design that would surpass mithril site…

    Let me ask though…how used is my database search engine used? do you find it useful to be able to search every female character, or every rohirim, or every figurine having a sword as primary weapon? It takes time to fill all those fields but I have not got any feedback on its utility?

    #21212
    cameosis
    Participant

    meisterschütze turambar is right, in my opinion — we all know about the level of (un)professionalism @ the company and a blatant lack of appreciation for their customers’ efforts to support business beyond purchasing their products.

    you can only try so many times, gildor: there comes a point where you have to decide whether you want to accept their ignorance and move on, doing what you like, or, alternatively, call it a day and say it was good while it lasted.

    as far as i am concerned, mmp and the database is a tremendous service to the collector community — i am positive that nobody will disagree. i do fail to see how and why mithril or their acknowledgement would be instrumental in all of this, though.

    at the end of the day, all i care about is that i am able to get as many of the missing figurines as possible, preferably for a decent price, too. if they are too inept to have some common (business) sense help them run their company, sorry … but why care?

    the sculptor listens to the community, and that is a much more important thing. furthermore, we don’t need official canonical naming of the releases, either, if everyone involved knows what they represent.

    from a legal standpoint, it doesn’t matter what we call the figures on the forum, because we are not a business (meaning open discussion about silmarillion-related characters / miniatures is not an issue at all).

    as long as chris tubb only uses generic names, there is nothing to fear — names and tolkien’s work proper can be copyrighted, but that is about it … in the case of gw, the rohirrim and troll interpretations, for instance, are games workshop copyright (meaning the figures themselves). the license is only relevant for marketing purposes (i.e. the fishing for customers who want *official* and *officially named* products). the figure designs are unaffected by that.

    if i write that to me the elf figure pm2 looks like lúthien, there is no repercussion — i’m just a forum member who unilaterally used the name of a character from some fantasy book to describe a metal miniature. as long as the company producing said miniature doesn’t use copyrighted names / terms, there is no risk whatsoever.

    a question i have as well: is the current zoetrop catalog accessible only to a select few or is there a download link available that could be shared with me? thanks in advance.

    re: your question about the search options — i only use manual search by reference number, so can’t tell …

    #21213
    Milo
    Participant

    Gildor,

    To my point of view, it is your database that is The Mithril reference.
    Zoetrop’s catalogue is another precious item that does not have the same purpose, as per the wiki gallery I updated.

    I use full functionnalities you implemented, and very often on a daily basis. Nothing else even exist for other miniature brands !

    Advanced search is great help when I for instance want to see all 32mm human females to prepare a diorama project.
    Individual search also when I want to be quick.
    Then collection manager & trade engine is perfect, for my own collection management, and also permitted I helped almost every MMP members to complete some holes they have.

    #21214
    Milo
    Participant

    Bref, sans toi, je n’aurai pas repris si frénétiquement ma passion d’enfance, et un grand Merci ! :cool::lol:

    #21215
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    Thanks Milo and thanks Cameosis for your feedback

    as for search engine… well… it seems cameosis that you miss more than 90% of the functionnalities , that’s a pity :(

    as for having names or not names, mithril or phaeton-design, I somehow agree with you Cameosis, but that was not the point…

    well I don’t think I’ll manage to explain how I really feel anyway…. I agree with all that you say but I still feel I have no legitimacy outside our little community when trying to promote the figurines, be they phaeton or mithril…

    About Phaeton, this range is not meant to supplant mithril in any way… an addition maybe but not an alternative to mithril, it was never meant to be so

    well I don’t think there is a need to extend this topic any longer… though to focus on more to-the-point matters… It would be cool if more people could use, test and check the database search engines

    #21216
    Gildor
    MMP Elder

    mmhh I just saw the catalogue is live on the mithril website : http://www.mithril.ie/Catalogue/

    a great work indeed, it looks like the original from 2009 but well it’s only up to 2010… still it is a GREAT work, there is only one problem and a big one, this is not printer friendly at all… I wonder if there is another version that could help to print 174 pages altogether.

    #21217
    cameosis
    Participant
    Gildor Inglorion wrote:
    as for search engine… well… it seems cameosis that you miss more than 90% of the functionnalities , that’s a pity :(

    that’s fine, i am a bit peculiar when it comes to such things and prefer doing it the complicated way.

    Gildor Inglorion wrote:
    well I don’t think I’ll manage to explain how I really feel anyway…. I agree with all that you say but I still feel I have no legitimacy outside our little community when trying to promote the figurines, be they phaeton or mithril…

    au contraire — your commitment to the hobby is reason / legitimation enough. no company could give you that with a written statement — and honestly, with a business policy like mithril’s, it’s better this way! keep your head up.

    #21218
    ddaines
    Participant

    Gildor, I would hazard a (cynical) guess as to why the situation is such and that is that you have not been slow in coming forward to give the company a well deserved kick up the arse when the situation has deserved it which has probably left them smarting at the critisism……

    What better way for them to settle a score and get a bit of their own back than to snub your offers of help and database :). Not saying that this is the reason, but if so it is childish in the extreme 😡 Am I being too cynical? :rolleyes:

    Don’t give up on your passion, but at least as the sun sets in the West, a new power is rising in the East ;) which promises great hope :D

    #21219
    sevlag
    Participant
    Gildor Inglorion wrote:
    mmhh I just saw the catalogue is live on the mithril website : http://www.mithril.ie/Catalogue/

    a great work indeed, it looks like the original from 2009 but well it’s only up to 2010… still it is a GREAT work, there is only one problem and a big one, this is not printer friendly at all… I wonder if there is another version that could help to print 174 pages altogether.

    Thanks for the link Gildor.
    Very great work, but I have 2 regrets : It’s a pity whether it’s not on MMP and damage that we can’t have it in paper version (especially that I have no other catalogs)

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MMP Mithril in Middle-Earth The Secret Vaults of Angrenost Mithril and Zoetrop Catalogue

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