The Taproom

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  • #2293
    Barliman
    Participant

      History is never easily divided up into ‘periods’ without the risk of one person’s definition differing from another – Indian historians, for instance, consider that the Middle Ages lasted up to at least the middle/end of the 18th century! To me, the ‘High’ Middlle Ages are the period 1300-1450, and anything before that is consequently ‘early’.

      As regards Chris’s Gondorian soldiery, I rather like them – but that may be because I have a soft spot for fading Byzantium in the ‘real’ world, which is the ‘look’ I think Chris was aiming at. It’s a shame that he has never realised his dream (so far!) of designing figures to match all of the provincial contingents as outlined in the Tengwar articles all those years ago. But who knows, he may yet (incidentally, I suspect the articles were rather more John Treadaway’s work than Chris’s).

      #2294
      ESTEL
      Participant

        Oh yes, I hope that many more fiefdom soldiers will be released in future. :D This was only done by one bad company and I definitly do not like the look of the other company’s designs. :mad:The article in the TENGWAR magazine was fabulous and made me dream about Gondor’s fiefdoms. :rolleyes:
        Let’s see what the future brings, we will see at last the knights of D.A. and that is more I expected to come, not to say that great Imrahil figure.
        Maybe it would be a challenge for Chris to design some more civilians of the fiefdoms? ;)

        P.S.: In Germany the historians do mostly agree, that from the fall of western Rome (500 to 900/1000 the period is called Early Middle Ages, from 11th to 13th/14th century (1100-1300)period is called High Middle Ages, from 1300 to 1500 (sometimes 1492) it is the Late Middle Ages. From 1500 it is called “Neuzeit” modern times with the early period (to 1600)…..
        Not my personal view :)

        #2295
        erchamion
        Participant

          Interesting question! Only one point, friends. :D

          While it is true what say Mr. Barliman about it is difficult to put dates to the division of History, it seems the widespread idea that the Middle Ages (European, not global) begins with the Fall of Rome (476) until the Conquest of Constantinople (1453).
          The Early Middle Ages cover until the year 1000, the High Middle Ages was the period in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries and the Late Middle Ages which by convention end around 1500 (some extend this period until the discovery of America)

          The question is to know that each culture had a distinct evolution. We are talking about the Middle Ages in EUROPE.;)

          #2296
          ESTEL
          Participant
            erchamion wrote:
            Interesting question! Only one point, friends. :D

            While it is true what say Mr. Barliman about it is difficult to put dates to the division of History, it seems the widespread idea that the Middle Ages (European, not global) begins with the Fall of Rome (476) until the Conquest of Constantinople (1453).
            The Early Middle Ages cover until the year 1000, the High Middle Ages was the period in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries and the Late Middle Ages which by convention end around 1500 (some extend this period until the discovery of America)

            The question is to know that each culture had a distinct evolution. We are talking about the Middle Ages in EUROPE.;)

            Yes Europe, is there anything else out there? :D

            Oh yes, Harad, Rhun and so on :D
            ups or is it called öhm????

            #2297
            Barliman
            Participant

              As I said earlier, and I repeat, naming historical periods is a game in which no real rules apply. The idea of calling everything post-Roman the ‘Middle Ages’ is in reality neither helpful nor accurate – middle of what, for instance? And where have the ‘Dark Ages’ suddenly gone? – they were certainly still there when I was at school…

              As far as I’m concerned, the Dark Ages end in 1066 (yes, an Anglo-centric viewpoint I confess – almost as bad as looking at the whole of history from an entirely Euro-centric viewpoint); the early Middle Ages then ensue until about the mid/late 13th century. After that come the so-called High Middle Ages (a particularly silly name when you stop and think about it), which last until circa 1450, followed by the late Middle Ages. This is, of course, all entirely subjective, and entirely my own opinion (which means being ‘wrong’ doesn’t worry me). It would be more accurate anyway to describe the Middle Ages as consisting of Feudal and post-Feudal periods.

              Of course, since history comprises one continuous stream of events all such labels have no special relevance anyway, beyond compartmentalising it into bite-sized chunks for the purposes of research and education.

              #2298
              ESTEL
              Participant
                Barliman wrote:
                As I said earlier, and I repeat, naming historical periods is a game in which no real rules apply. The idea of calling everything post-Roman the ‘Middle Ages’ is in reality neither helpful nor accurate – middle of what, for instance? And where have the ‘Dark Ages’ suddenly gone? – they were certainly still there when I was at school…

                As far as I’m concerned, the Dark Ages end in 1066 (yes, an Anglo-centric viewpoint I confess – almost as bad as looking at the whole of history from an entirely Euro-centric viewpoint); the early Middle Ages then ensue until about the mid/late 13th century. After that come the so-called High Middle Ages (a particularly silly name when you stop and think about it), which last until circa 1450, followed by the late Middle Ages. This is, of course, all entirely subjective, and entirely my own opinion (which means being ‘wrong’ doesn’t worry me). It would be more accurate anyway to describe the Middle Ages as consisting of Feudal and post-Feudal periods.

                Of course, since history comprises one continuous stream of events all such labels have no special relevance anyway, beyond compartmentalising it into bite-sized chunks for the purposes of research and education.

                Yes Barliman,

                it is a silly idea to divide a continuous stream and give these “periods” names. It is also strange to view these historical periods as parallel to Tolkiens universe- it is still Fantasy!

                So come up friends and let’s have some ale in your Barli’s tabroom! It is hot outside and I need something refreshing.

                P.S.: Maybe ‘middle’ means in the middle of Endor?? :D

                #2299
                Barliman
                Participant

                  Actually, I’ve often wondered what they’ll call the Middle Ages in another thousand years time – they certainly won’t be in the ‘middle’ of recorded history by then!

                  On another issue entirely, has anyone else seen that Christopher Tolkien is going to the US in a week or so to try and get the courts to put a stop to the making of the Hobbit movie, on the grounds that Newline still owe TE (he guesses) $80 million? There also seems to be a suggestion that the proposed second movie somehow infringes his (or TE’s) Silmarillion copyright in some way, though it’s unclear how.

                  #2300
                  Barliman
                  Participant

                    And on another entirely different issue, does anyone know how theFellowship vote is going? I have to access Mithril via ProBoards (does everyone, or is it just those of us with iMacs?), and ProBoards has currently got problems (technically referred to as ‘aaaargh, the site has burned down…’). Ergo I can’t get in at all at the moment to see how things are going. Last I saw was that the Shield-maiden and King Brand were still level pegging on 15 votes.

                    #2301
                    twrich
                    Participant

                      Still no ProBoards–hopefully tomorrow!

                      #2302
                      ESTEL
                      Participant

                        seems to be a general problem, no access to any board not to say that I can see anything other than “error”.

                        #2303
                        Theobald
                        Participant

                          Huoommrhuoomm … yes, indeed it is. But why worry … huommm .. it will be fixed again once … hom … so why hurry all the time? …. rhuoommm … in case you expect me to do anything about it I might quote the porter from a certain play, saying “This disease is beyond me practice.” … huoommm … it has become quite hot from where I came from lately… so a large bowl of clear clean water would nicely meet my needs, Master Barliman …. rhuoommm … please.

                          #2304
                          Barliman
                          Participant

                            Water I’ve certainly got plenty of, because it’s been raining cats and dogs here for the past week, so you’re welcome to as much of it as you can imbibe.

                            #2305
                            jdbrown55
                            Participant

                              I will take some of that cold water too! It sure is hot where I am as well.:P

                              #2306
                              Barliman
                              Participant

                                I must be in the wrong place…mind you, it always seems to rain in Bree (that scene in the movie was no exaggeration… except for the guy with the carrot – never seen him).

                                #2307
                                regalrick
                                Participant

                                  Master Barliman,I’ve just returned from the realms of the ProBoards and could use an ale to toast King Brand who has taken the lead in the fellowship competition.

                                  #2308
                                  Barliman
                                  Participant

                                    Yay! I’m with you on that one, so that drink is on me. But of course, there’s still a lot of time still to run before the king can be sure of victory, so we must remember the old adage – many a slip, etc (and believe me, I see plenty of slips between cups and lips in my line of work).

                                    #2309
                                    Theobald
                                    Participant

                                      Huooommmmm …. there seems to be haste all around me ….. huommm …. first you people get so excited because some strange board does not work though you should know that boards can be fixed or be renewed again … huoommm …. just remember Master Gildor’s fine work …. hom … and now you tend to toast unsettled matters … rhuoommm …. Master Regalrick, just imagine having to toast to each vote that supports that King …. rhuoommm … then imagine that all Fellowship-members might vote …. that could damage your heath seriously methinks, though Master Barliman certainly would very much appreciate such frequent toasting, I’m sure …. hom

                                      #2311
                                      Barliman
                                      Participant

                                        Yes indeedy. And be careful what you say about boards, Master Theobald. Remember that they’re made out of (gasp…) trees. And I don’t know about haste, but it seems to me that you should be able to make up your mind regarding what to vote for easily, King Brand being the most – the only – meritorious contender, as he’s the only one of the three finalists who’s never yet appeared in the Mithril (or, indeed, any other) range in any shape or form.

                                        #2312
                                        presto247365
                                        Participant

                                          Interesting developement with Christopher Tolkien. It’s long been known how tightly he guards his father’s legacy, and his full opposition to any film productions. I can understand this and can’t really blame him.

                                          On the other hand, Tolkien’s work has grown over the last half-century into a more organic, living legacy. It has been interpreted, sculpted, gamed, written about, translated, filmed, acted, and endlessly debated ;) It seems almost quaint, and certainly futile to try and control and contain all of that.

                                          Legally speaking, does CT even have a case, with the rights to the Hobbit still being owned by Saul Zentz (Spelling?) And with no script yet written for film 2, I’m not sure how he could prove licensing infringement on the Silmarillion.

                                          Now being allegedly owed 80 million, that’s another story, and he should pursue any money he is due to the fullest measure, but I see it as a seperate issue.

                                          Finally, I leaves a slightly of-taste in my mouth that he is opposing a new film when TE continues to OK some of the truly wretched works that come out of GW.

                                          #2313
                                          Barliman
                                          Participant

                                            A valid point!

                                            My guess is CT will get the money (Newline have, after all, gone belly-up and been bought out along with their debts), since the first three franchise movies have achieved a turnover of – reputedly – a billion dollars EACH, and I can’t see a Hollywood movie company worrying themselves about parting with piddling small change when there are such massive profits at stake.

                                            But what still fascinates me most is what Third Age info he thinks is going to be in the second film that could possibly only be found in the Silmarillion. It will be interesting to find out in due course. Or maybe he’s simply putting up a target to see if anything hits it…

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